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Forced rhubarb, a vegetable deprived of sunlight, is having a renaissance (2019)

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Re: Forced rhubarb, a vegetable deprived of sunlight, is having a renaissance (2019)

#71

Post by hombre_fatal »

mminer237 wrote: post #61
cesnja wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are completely wrong. There are many quality sources of calcium in plants. For example legumes, nuts, seeds, dark leafy greens including spinach.

You would have to eat like 5 cups of legumes every day to get enough iron that way if you're a woman. That's almost two pounds. Nuts or greens would be an even higher amount.

They were talking about calcium. But let's plug some iron sources into cronometer:

- 100g lentils: 3.3mg iron, 116cal

- 100g spinach: 2.7mg iron, 23cal

- 100g cooked tofu: 2.7mg iron, 110cal

That's more than 50% of the day's iron recommendation for women in about 250 calories or about 1/8th of the day's calories for the average woman.

Re: Forced rhubarb, a vegetable deprived of sunlight, is having a renaissance (2019)

#72

Post by hombre_fatal »

adrian_b wrote: post #49
vanderZwan wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for that? Because while looking up this spinach thing I've come across half a dozen websites, most of them from health institutes that look fairly responsible, stating leafy greens do have calcium. Although in the case of spinach it's barely absorbed, apparently https://www.myfooddata.com/articles/high-calcium-vegetables....

Having much calcium among vegetables does not mean having enough calcium as a human food. Your link uses the silly "cup" unit of measure from which it is hard to assess which is the real calcium content. The right way to show the content of a nutrient in some food is to show how many kilograms or pounds you must eat daily to provide enough of that nutrient. In the case of calcium the best case that I have seen for va…

It's often most convenient to incorporate any fortified nut milk into your diet which is what I recommend to most vegans.

My Costco-brand soy milk gives me 60% of the day's calcium and vitamin D in my morning smoothie.

Re: Forced rhubarb, a vegetable deprived of sunlight, is having a renaissance (2019)

#73

Post by hombre_fatal »

adrian_b wrote: post #54
elhudy wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I personally started experiencing problems after 10 years of a 95% vegan diet and went carnivore, getting rid of a number of weird health issues I couldn't explain. Have you tried just eating many different things in moderation? Fiber has been repeatedly shown to decrease rates of cardiovascular disease, cancer, and all cause mortality. It’s kind of silly to “go carnivore” and use your resulting feelings as a base…

Being “carnivore” is a more foolproof choice. Following an 100% vegan diet in a healthy way requires more care in choosing some appropriate nutritional supplements and in planning what you eat than for any other kind of diet. I am vegan and I enjoy it, but I would not recommend this for everyone, because there is no doubt that it would be too tedious for most people, who prefer to eat in a more spontaneous way, witho…

I'm starting to have some major doubts about how much you've informed yourself on the topic here when you say "carnivore" is more foolproof than a much less restrictive diet like a plant-based diet.

You can see this just by plugging 2000 calories of meat in Cronometer and viewing the nutrition holes. Even 2000 calories of bagels gives you a wider assortment of nutrients than 2000 calories of beef.

Re: Forced rhubarb, a vegetable deprived of sunlight, is having a renaissance (2019)

#74

Post by darknavi »

itronitron wrote: post #17
thedailymail wrote: post #2

Mentioned in the article, but forced rhubarb grows so fast you can hear it. This soundcloud file suggests hearing it in a darkened vault by candlelight would be extraordinary experience! https://soundcloud.com/rhubarb-rhubarb-rhubarb/a-mass-of-pop...

Well, they definitely need to add rhubarb to Minecraft now.

1.22 - Strawberry and rhubarb pie update

Re: Forced rhubarb, a vegetable deprived of sunlight, is having a renaissance (2019)

#75

Post by hombre_fatal »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #37
vanderZwan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oxalic acid is poisonous? Should I stop eating spinach then? Oh, looks like the article mentions this actually: > Chard and spinach, in fact, contain even more oxalic acid than rhubarb—respectively, 700 and 600 mg/100 g, as opposed to rhubarb’s restrained 500. Rhubarb’s killer reputation apparently dates to World War I, when rhubarb leaves were recommended on the home front as an alternative food. At least one death…

Probably in small doses (like what our ancestors 20000 years ago probably eat when they couldn't find better food) it won't do too much damage. Cooking will also remove some oxalates. Overall these are plants defense mechanisms. We know they work well as anti bug measures, ruminants have more complex digestive systems to break them down; it's not always clear what prolonged use on humans will cause. Carnivores advoca…

This is a popular talking point among carnivore charlatans on social media, but can you show me any meta analysis or randomized controlled trials where they found adverse health effects when humans consume whole plant foods high in oxalates such as leafy greens, beans or whole grains?

I know the charlatans won't. We'll just get petri dish and rat studies but mostly hand-waving narratives.

> Overall these are plants defense mechanisms

This doesn't mean anything. Of the "anti"-nutrients that survive basic cooking, most of them show improved health outcomes in humans: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7600777/

Though I'm not sure how people find it convincing on a rhetorical level. If these "defense chemicals" are so bad, then over what time period are they supposed to hurt us? 100 years? Because the overwhelming balance of evidence only shows improved health outcomes with the consumption of fruit and vegetables, especially the scary ones like dark leafy greens and legumes.

This just sounds like the "eek, a chemical in my food!" rebranded for the 2020s.

Finally, to circle back to the topic at hand, I just wouldn't center my diet around rhubarb leaves. They're about as enticing as celery leaves.

Re: Forced rhubarb, a vegetable deprived of sunlight, is having a renaissance (2019)

#76

Post by pvaldes »

vanderZwan wrote: post #22
rusanu wrote: post #15

Remember that rhubarb leaves are actually poisonous due to oxalic acid (I've seen quotes of 2-5 kg od leaves being a lethal dose). https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/article/does-rhub...

Oxalic acid is poisonous? Should I stop eating spinach then? Oh, looks like the article mentions this actually: > Chard and spinach, in fact, contain even more oxalic acid than rhubarb—respectively, 700 and 600 mg/100 g, as opposed to rhubarb’s restrained 500. Rhubarb’s killer reputation apparently dates to World War I, when rhubarb leaves were recommended on the home front as an alternative food. At least one death…

> Oxalic acid is poisonous?

If you eat too much of it, yes. All Oxalis leaves are edible but only in the correct (small) dose.

Re: Forced rhubarb, a vegetable deprived of sunlight, is having a renaissance (2019)

#77

Post by postmodest »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #71
mminer237 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would have to eat like 5 cups of legumes every day to get enough iron that way if you're a woman. That's almost two pounds. Nuts or greens would be an even higher amount.

They were talking about calcium. But let's plug some iron sources into cronometer: - 100g lentils: 3.3mg iron, 116cal - 100g spinach: 2.7mg iron, 23cal - 100g cooked tofu: 2.7mg iron, 110cal That's more than 50% of the day's iron recommendation for women in about 250 calories or about 1/8th of the day's calories for the average woman.

100g is a large volume of loose spinach and dry lentils. That's a hearty entree for a hungry lass once cooked.

Re: Forced rhubarb, a vegetable deprived of sunlight, is having a renaissance (2019)

#78

Post by hombre_fatal »

sergioisidoro wrote: post #35
rusanu wrote: post #15

Remember that rhubarb leaves are actually poisonous due to oxalic acid (I've seen quotes of 2-5 kg od leaves being a lethal dose). https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/article/does-rhub...

That is why so many rhubarb dishes (rhubarb pies, and desserts) are so often served with ice cream and vanilla sauce based on milk products. The calcium in those neutralize any potential issues of the oxalic acid.

This doesn't make sense to me. 200g of cooked rhubarb already has almost 400mg of calcium which is almost half of the 1000mg daily US recommendation and more than half of the 700mg daily UK recommendation.

Thinking dairy is the only source of calcium is meme-nutrition like eating bananas for potassium especially when talking about a food already high in calcium.

Re: Forced rhubarb, a vegetable deprived of sunlight, is having a renaissance (2019)

#79

Post by hombre_fatal »

postmodest wrote: post #77
hombre_fatal wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were talking about calcium. But let's plug some iron sources into cronometer: - 100g lentils: 3.3mg iron, 116cal - 100g spinach: 2.7mg iron, 23cal - 100g cooked tofu: 2.7mg iron, 110cal That's more than 50% of the day's iron recommendation for women in about 250 calories or about 1/8th of the day's calories for the average woman.

100g is a large volume of loose spinach and dry lentils. That's a hearty entree for a hungry lass once cooked.

That's 100g of cooked lentils and 100g of raw spinach. 100g of raw spinach cooks down to about the size of a deck of cards.

Though I don't see the point of quibbling here. My point only gets stronger and stronger as I add in more foods and calories, even packaged grain foods that are incidentally fortified with iron.

Re: Forced rhubarb, a vegetable deprived of sunlight, is having a renaissance (2019)

#80

Post by plexxer »

refulgentis wrote: post #70
thedailymail wrote: post #2

Mentioned in the article, but forced rhubarb grows so fast you can hear it. This soundcloud file suggests hearing it in a darkened vault by candlelight would be extraordinary experience! https://soundcloud.com/rhubarb-rhubarb-rhubarb/a-mass-of-pop...

I don't quite understand: constantly, for days? It seems there would be a finite # of buds to burst, and especially at the frequency (4-6 hz?) and relatively finite size of the dark greenhouse...I'm really surprised this is a phenomenon for more than hours. There must be a TON of buds?

The article stated half of a million, so very likely yes.
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