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At this company, we are family

pboyd.io

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Re: At this company, we are family

#71

Post by stanjo »

aroundtown wrote: post #28
jylam wrote: post #16

I especially like the very American "I ask that you refrain from discussing your termination with any social contacts made through your membership in the family [...] Failure to comply may result in your severance being terminated early or withheld entirely." In (most of ?) Europe, this severance is law and not debatable (as discovered by Musk recently), so this sentence would be outright illegal. You can talk about…

> You should fight for some more rights, sometime I wish we could fight for more rights. We are too spread out for protests to work. The politicians do everything they can to separate themselves from their electorate. And the average person doesn't have enough money to weather a week of no paychecks. Meanwhile half the populace gets angry at the thought of helping out anyone beneath them as they don't want them to ge…

This is very succinct. I was raised to value "a hard day's work," and while I still do, I realize as an adult that I should know who or what I'm working for.

Re: At this company, we are family

#72

Post by hutzlibu »

oldandboring wrote: post #33
FredPret wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you so sarcastically point out, Americans give up many employment rights such as these. But it's not a one-way street. Being easier to fire makes American employees easier to hire, which is at least in part responsible for much higher pay in the USA compared to employee havens such as Europe. Furthermore, Americans tend to pay less tax. This isn't usually thought of as an employee rights issue, but in my mind, kee…

This is a refreshing comment to read. HN and Reddit discussions about employment in the US is often just a dumpster fire of "America bad", half-baked theories and observations from the perspective of the employee, where US workers have no rights and would be rioting in the streets if we hadn't been brainwashed by corporate media. Here on earth, what you wrote is much closer to the truth. The American economy is awash…

"The American economy is awash with opportunities to work for small businesses, with employees free to move around and chart their own destiny. "

If they all are all happy and free to chart their own destiny - why are those contract things then pretty much standard in the US (as it seems to me)?

And maybe things are not perfect on either side of the atlantic?

I would be fine with less regulations and hire and fire here in europe btw - but I would be not OK, having to sign such contracts. But I don't see, why we can't have both. Meaning employee respecting contracts - but not mandated from above.

Re: At this company, we are family

#73

Post by caminante »

intothemild wrote: post #18
me_jumper wrote: post #8

Gosh, I hate “we are a family” companies so much.

As someone who's autistic, these kinds of companies are very difficult for me. Usually the "we're family" companies are also the "let's have a social event constantly", or return to the office days are also just filled with socializing. I get it.. some people really enjoy that, but that's not everyone. It feels like it's by design to exclude other kinds of people who don't enjoy a hyper social environment.

In your experience, "family office" means "hyper social," and autists struggle with "family office."

This seems too vague and broad for meaningful discussion.

I'm not picking a side, but for the sake of comparison, I've seen office environments with "we are family" messaging treat individuals with autism or disabilities more inclusively and with more grace than otherwise.

Re: At this company, we are family

#74

Post by me_jumper »

systemvoltage wrote: post #36
me_jumper wrote: post #8

Gosh, I hate “we are a family” companies so much.

I disagree, my father ran a small business (physical goods) and the people in his company were almost like a family. They felt as such, we treated them as such, it was amazing...brings a tear. I cannot emphasize this enough: It was far better relationship than resentful people on HN who are constantly complaining about work. They were happier as a whole.

That's not what I'm talking about. I mean companies that brand themselves as “was are a family” not where it comes from a genuine connection between the employees.

Re: At this company, we are family

#75

Post by dsr_ »

playing_colours wrote: post #38
FredPret wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you so sarcastically point out, Americans give up many employment rights such as these. But it's not a one-way street. Being easier to fire makes American employees easier to hire, which is at least in part responsible for much higher pay in the USA compared to employee havens such as Europe. Furthermore, Americans tend to pay less tax. This isn't usually thought of as an employee rights issue, but in my mind, kee…

In Germany we have probation period of 6 months that helps both sides to decide if they want to continue employment. Can you please explain the causation between easiness of firing / hiring and high salaries?

I can explain the theory.

In scenario H (for hard to fire), we expect employers to spend more time evaluating new hires, because if they make a suboptimal choice, they will be stuck with that employee until they can justify to the authority that the employee is not suitable. This makes them averse to hiring quickly, and also averse to paying a premium unless they are extremely certain of the results. We then expect potential employees to spend more time vetting potential employers, because any involuntary job search process is going to be long and expensive.

In scenario E (for easy to fire), we expect employers to spend less time evaluating new hires, and to be more agreeable to paying a premium, because the loss of hiring suboptimally can be swiftly ended. Since employers hire faster, we expect employees to spend less time vetting employers, since getting a new different job should take less time.

In practice, I suspect that current economic situations are much more of a driver than the regulatory regime.

Re: At this company, we are family

#76

Post by profile53 »

jylam wrote: post #56
jraby3 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not convinced Americans pay less in taxes. When you include state taxes, social security from the employee and employer, then it starts to look like much less of a difference. When you include health insurance and college education, Americans get much less value. I do agree with the first half of your comment. American labor laws make it easier to fire which allows employers to take more risk in hiring.

> "I do agree with the first half of your comment. American labor laws make it easier to fire which allows employers to take more risk in hiring. " less risk, you used the wrong word. If they can fire easily, they take less risk by hiring. That's more risk for the employee though, you miss the fact that most of the people is not HN, and they don't get paid 6 or 7 figures and don't find a job in days if they really ne…

I think they take less risk in each hiring decision and because of that, can take on more risky / less proven candidates, ergo more risk acceptance in the hiring practices.

Re: At this company, we are family

#77

Post by pizzaknife »

jraby3 wrote: post #40
FredPret wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you so sarcastically point out, Americans give up many employment rights such as these. But it's not a one-way street. Being easier to fire makes American employees easier to hire, which is at least in part responsible for much higher pay in the USA compared to employee havens such as Europe. Furthermore, Americans tend to pay less tax. This isn't usually thought of as an employee rights issue, but in my mind, kee…

I’m not convinced Americans pay less in taxes. When you include state taxes, social security from the employee and employer, then it starts to look like much less of a difference. When you include health insurance and college education, Americans get much less value. I do agree with the first half of your comment. American labor laws make it easier to fire which allows employers to take more risk in hiring.

take a look at "property tax"

Re: At this company, we are family

#78

Post by hutzlibu »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #49
oldandboring wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a refreshing comment to read. HN and Reddit discussions about employment in the US is often just a dumpster fire of "America bad", half-baked theories and observations from the perspective of the employee, where US workers have no rights and would be rioting in the streets if we hadn't been brainwashed by corporate media. Here on earth, what you wrote is much closer to the truth. The American economy is awash…

> with employees free to move around and chart their own destiny What about the European system prevents that for the employee?

That we don't have hire and fire, meaning when you take a new job it comes with all kinds of regulations for the company - making them not wanting to change people so often.

Otherwise we surely can do this in europe as well, just with a little bit more friction.

Re: At this company, we are family

#79

Post by notaustinpowers »

systemvoltage wrote: post #36
me_jumper wrote: post #8

Gosh, I hate “we are a family” companies so much.

I disagree, my father ran a small business (physical goods) and the people in his company were almost like a family. They felt as such, we treated them as such, it was amazing...brings a tear. I cannot emphasize this enough: It was far better relationship than resentful people on HN who are constantly complaining about work. They were happier as a whole.

Your father's business is an exception, not the norm. Also, complaining about work is as human of an experience as death itself. That's why it's called work...

Re: At this company, we are family

#80

Post by hirako2000 »

Arisaka1 wrote: post #51

My first job was with a "we are a family" company, they used stupid names for the employees internally but also in the job post, together with an emoji spam that couldn't say "how you do fellow kids?" any harder, ask to "see yourself like an entrepreneur" and "be the leader of your own ideas" obviously taking far less than the actual company owners. After a while I had to resign due to mental health problem manifesti…

Some employers like to "adopt" candidates and brainwash them to them bond to the organisation. Of course that's just smoke and as time goes it takes a toll on mental health, way before things have become clear that your only family is your kin.
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