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From Python to Elixir Machine Learning

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Re: From Python to Elixir Machine Learning

#71

Post by codybontecou »

mrdoops wrote: post #70
codybontecou wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know which resources your devs are using to learn Elixir from scratch?

* Elixir-lang Intro: https://elixir-lang.org/getting-started/introduction.html * Exercism track: https://exercism.org/tracks/elixir * Sasa Juric's book: https://www.manning.com/books/elixir-in-action-third-edition * Dave Thomas's Elixir Course: https://codestool.coding-gnome.com/courses/elixir-for-progra... * Phoenix Guides: https://hexdocs.pm/phoenix/overview.html * Ecto Guides: https://hexdocs.pm/ecto/getting-start…

Perfect, thank you a ton.

Re: From Python to Elixir Machine Learning

#72

Post by pawelduda »

lawn wrote: post #63
pawelduda wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can no longer edit parent post so to further elaborate on tooling: even if Elixir was comparable to Python (let's assume it's true as of today), there is a lot going on in AI, so that won't necessarily be true tomorrow. There is no doubt Elixir will always be slower to catch up to recent development because of smaller community. This also applies to how quickly issues will be resolved as they appear. It's likely OK…

If that reasoning would hold true then there would never be a new best/most popular language for a specific domain, but there are many counter examples. And just as Elixir is (in my opinion) preferable to Python for web development, it's possible that the same may happen with AI.

I agree that it's a better choice for web development purely from technical standpoint (so ignoring things like smaller market for devs), but I'm biased towards it.

And yes, when it comes to AI, things also could change in favour of Elixir - I would be pretty happy about it.

Re: From Python to Elixir Machine Learning

#73

Post by realusername »

ranjanprj wrote: post #31

I just ran a 2006 Java code to detect and read car license plate, and it ran in the first run on Java 17. The code is 17 years old and runs just fine without any issues. I think Java folks messed up AI/ML space due to licensing. But I still think it's best PL for AI/ML.

You would be happy in Elixir as well, the language is pretty much frozen and very small bug fixes and features are added.

It's definitely not a fast moving language.

Re: From Python to Elixir Machine Learning

#74

Post by gv83 »

parthdesai wrote: post #65
gv83 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sure thing! I'll try to make points related to what I observed and experienced in my org, starting with one huge huge huge preamble which is: I work in an average org with average joe devs. an average joe dev to me is someone who "just wants a job" and is not very interested in furthering its own professional development or learning new things unless trained & forced by the job. it's perfectly fine to be an average d…

> It also requires a different way of exploring code as you can't do the familiar `.` and see what happens, you can't just do `price.toCentsValue` but need to do `price |> Price.toCentsValue` and so you need to know the existence of the `Price` module, which might not exist and be buried in `Cart` or as an helper in some controller because you did not understand clearly the domain and the modules responsibilities. At…

I'm not really picking anything, just sharing how it went with elixir in my org. I'm sure we could have done better, but the pit of success was not there for the polyglot teams. the elixir-only teams did a bit better, but mostly they just learned the ecosystem and then GTFO'ed out to greener pastures since they just wanted to write elixir and only elixir.

about your specific counterpoint, I think it's partially valid; I don't instantiate modules, I might not have named structs but just operate on Maps so I don't know the supposed module name, I might have misplaced the function in another module (while it's very intuitive to stick it to the object in oop)...and a million other things that are way too different for the average joe.

Re: From Python to Elixir Machine Learning

#75

Post by gv83 »

throwawaymaths wrote: post #69
gv83 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this has been a point of contention with numerous hr departments that needs to hire fast "cuz investors!!11". this is the reality of life sadly

This is the real problem. Most orgs that fail on elixir fail due to management.

absolutely, that's what I said when I talked about strong org support.

also, if you don't have strong org support, you risk getting onboard people that just want to work with that specific technology that WILL gtfo as soon as they need to change team to one that doesn't use it, or if the technology is sunset, etc., so it's even more risky to have an exotic stack in the middle of more common stacks

Re: From Python to Elixir Machine Learning

#76

Post by itronitron »

frakt0x90 wrote: post #33
ranjanprj wrote: post #31

I just ran a 2006 Java code to detect and read car license plate, and it ran in the first run on Java 17. The code is 17 years old and runs just fine without any issues. I think Java folks messed up AI/ML space due to licensing. But I still think it's best PL for AI/ML.

What makes it the best language for AI and ML? I've never heard that take so just curious your thoughts. It's nice that legacy code still runs but that's usually not people's concern in ML.

I (and my colleagues) have worked on statistical, data analysis, and ML in Java since before data science was even a career field, and before Python became popular. In my opinion Java has better IDE support, more stable and proven libraries, and high performance.

Java does occasionally require that a person might have to implement their own code after reading a research paper, but I've always enjoyed that part of the job.

I've never understood Python's popularity except that I've heard some people say that it's used at Google.

Re: From Python to Elixir Machine Learning

#77

Post by throwawaymaths »

gv83 wrote: post #75
throwawaymaths wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the real problem. Most orgs that fail on elixir fail due to management.

absolutely, that's what I said when I talked about strong org support. also, if you don't have strong org support, you risk getting onboard people that just want to work with that specific technology that WILL gtfo as soon as they need to change team to one that doesn't use it, or if the technology is sunset, etc., so it's even more risky to have an exotic stack in the middle of more common stacks

This is a problem, that needs to be fixed in tech management. Tech managers need to trust their dev talent. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy.

Elixir is risky, so let's move off of it ==> devs leave. Elixir seems risky.

And then the devs/ecosystem gets blamed.

Re: From Python to Elixir Machine Learning

#78

Post by itronitron »

lopatin wrote: post #9
substation13 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are real issues though.

Is concurrency useful for ML?

Concurrency generally makes things run faster. If you test your ML methods your tests will complete faster if the ML methods are able to use and take advantage of concurrency. Some people consider that useful.

Re: From Python to Elixir Machine Learning

#79

Post by beeburrt »

antupis wrote: post #24
substation13 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are real issues though.

yes but generally they are not that kind make or break type issues like eg Julia correctness problems.

Correctness problems? Could you expand on that? Not doubting, just curious. Thnx

Re: From Python to Elixir Machine Learning

#80

Post by antupis »

beeburrt wrote: post #79
antupis wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes but generally they are not that kind make or break type issues like eg Julia correctness problems.

Correctness problems? Could you expand on that? Not doubting, just curious. Thnx

https://yuri.is/not-julia/
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