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Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

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Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#71

Post by colechristensen »

Canada wrote: post #51
haswell wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Docusign makes it easy to collect lots of signatures from lots of people. That’s the use-case from my POV. 1 signature on 1 doc, use any PDF tool—no problem. Collecting lots of signatures isn’t Docusign’s value prop. The value is signature certification, and a proven track record in court. A single signature on a PDF is not technically difficult. The machinery to reasonably guarantee (edit: verify is a better word…

DocuSign doesn't really do anything to reasonably guarantee that it was any particular person who signed the PDF. Not that it really matters. If there was something worth suing over then usually there will be plenty of other evidence as to who signed the agreement. Really the only thing that DocuSign does is timestamp the actions on the document. In order to get that a self hosted implementation would need some kind…

Do you know what DocuSign is doing on the backend, what logs they're keeping and data they're tracking?

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#72

Post by Foobar8568 »

Nextgrid wrote: post #55
dtx1 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not entirely true, cryptographic signatures exist. For example the EU eIDAS Law allows Advanced Cryptographic Signatures to basically just be PGP Signed Emails

Which unfortunately nobody uses because non-cryptographic signatures (such as Docusign or this but hosted by an independent third-party) are considered good enough in practice. Hell, nobody even has a smartcard reader, and as far as I know none of the eID cards have contactless capability that phones (who all have NFC readers nowadays) can use. I wish smartcards took off and computers included readers as standard. Th…

We do use this type of signatures here but for specific use cases, generally with administration like bodies, but not only. Generally speaking, the basic eSign covers 9x% of the needs.

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#73

Post by KingOfCoders »

lolinder wrote: post #37
KingOfCoders wrote: post #18

The benefit of DocuSign for me is, my clients already use DocuSign and have no problem using it with me.

Do your clients even notice, though? I'm a rare user of these platforms, but all I ever see is that I get an email with a link to sign something. Sometimes it's DocuSign and sometimes it's Adobe or something else, but I certainly don't feel any loyalty towards one over another, and as a signer, I certainly don't trust the platforms to hold onto my copy for me. It seems that unless you've got clients who are trying to…

It's usually NDAs they want (an me to provide) to have and DocuSign is fine with their legal department because they use it themselves.

If I can't use DocuSign usually I need to print a PDF, sign it, scan it and send it back.

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#74

Post by dboreham »

hkhanna wrote: post #49
Bilal_io wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for creating this and making it open source. What mechanism(s) is used to ensure non-repudiation? I appreciate that the demo is not behind a sign up wall, but is account creation and email verification required for invitees to sign any documents? Are IP addresses stored as part of the digital signature? Any other mechanism?

One of the tough things about a party-controlled, self-hosted e-signature is that it becomes easier to repudiate because a party to the contract has custody of the platform. The non-custodial party can claim they never signed, and when the custodial party produces evidence of IP address and timestamp, the non-custodial party may have a credible argument that they are faked and the person asserting those authenticated…

If only someone would invent a public nonrepudiatable ledger.

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#75

Post by 29athrowaway »

somery wrote: post #11

Hi everyone, my name is Alex and I'm the creator of DocuSeal. I was not happy with the existing mainstream document signing solutions so I decided to create an open-source alternative. I've been working on this project since the middle of May and here is what the tool can do so far: - PDF form fields builder - 10 field types available (Signature/Date/File/Checkbox etc) - Multiple submitters per document - Automated e…

Does it comply with US regulations for e-signatures? Otherwise, what's the point to have a signature that is not legally binding?

That is the whole point of signatures. Otherwise it is just an image editor.

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#76

Post by tiahura »

reisr3 wrote: post #5

What is the bar for a "legally binding digital signature"? Is this a very complicated topic - or is it quite simple? I can sign a PDF with OSX Preview for free. I can pay a bunch of money to sign with Docusign. Both produce a PDF with a digital image of my signature. I assume both documents constitute a legally binding agreement, so long as I actually preformed the digital signature. What justification do the e-signa…

Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Signatures_in_Globa...

“may not be denied legal effect, validity, or enforceability solely because it is in electronic form”

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#77

Post by lesuorac »

hkhanna wrote: post #49
Bilal_io wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for creating this and making it open source. What mechanism(s) is used to ensure non-repudiation? I appreciate that the demo is not behind a sign up wall, but is account creation and email verification required for invitees to sign any documents? Are IP addresses stored as part of the digital signature? Any other mechanism?

One of the tough things about a party-controlled, self-hosted e-signature is that it becomes easier to repudiate because a party to the contract has custody of the platform. The non-custodial party can claim they never signed, and when the custodial party produces evidence of IP address and timestamp, the non-custodial party may have a credible argument that they are faked and the person asserting those authenticated…

> That argument is much harder to assert with something like DocuSign because it is unlikely DocuSign would put their business on the line to fake someone's signature.

This seems like the claim that the USG will be unlikely to put it's Military on the line so they won't leak any tank designs on discord.

Happy to concede that the CEO of DocuSign wouldn't do this but surely some 15$/h employee doesn't have that same opinion.

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#80

Post by somery »

29athrowaway wrote: post #75
somery wrote: post #11

Hi everyone, my name is Alex and I'm the creator of DocuSeal. I was not happy with the existing mainstream document signing solutions so I decided to create an open-source alternative. I've been working on this project since the middle of May and here is what the tool can do so far: - PDF form fields builder - 10 field types available (Signature/Date/File/Checkbox etc) - Multiple submitters per document - Automated e…

Does it comply with US regulations for e-signatures? Otherwise, what's the point to have a signature that is not legally binding? That is the whole point of signatures. Otherwise it is just an image editor.

The E-Sign Act grandfathered in existing agreements that existed digitally prior to Oct. 1, 2000. All agreements after this date, however, must comply with the following set of guidelines in the E-Sign Act to be considered legally binding:

- Intent to sign. Electronic signatures are only valid if the involved parties have the intention to sign. Signature requests can be declined.

- Consent to do business electronically. Involved parties must agree to conduct transactions electronically.

- Attribution. The signature must uniquely attribute to the individual signing the document.

- Association of signature with the record. E-signatures must have a mark on the document from the signer that can then be associated with the record.

- Record retention. Electronic documents must be savable, viewable and printable by either party.

I think the tool provides all that - usually when working as a contractor i've been signing documents in PDF viewer and sending them back via email and that was what my clients wanted me to do. Tools like DocuSeal are making the process of signing docs easier than doing it via email.

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