Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Great, Another Bootstrap Site

drawar.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 119 posts

Re: Great, Another Bootstrap Site

#71

Post by parasitius »

Oh? You've seen bootstrap and now feel like leaving a site? Congrats you are in the 0.001%. Am I supposed to care?

Truth is I've heard moaning and bitching about bootstrap on hacker news for the better part of a year now. I have never touched bootstrap myself, and so even with all this familiarity I have no idea what a bootstrap site looks like and am absolutely unable to pick one out of a lineup. If I can't do it with this amount of familiarity I doubt you'll find one in 10,000 ordinary users who can. Hence --- who cares.

Re: Great, Another Bootstrap Site

#72

Post by billpatrianakos »

carsongross wrote: post #6

Bootstrap gives us a sane, standard look and feel for the web, which is a good thing. The design community generally doesn't like the idea of standards because they are a creative community, and there is no more damning phrase in the creative communities of the modern era than "unoriginal". But unoriginal is exactly what most people want with most of their web applications: they want to know how to work the things in…

It doesn't give us a same standard, it gives us Twitter's version of a standard. You're points are almost totally right and certainly reasonable but the big problem is that a lot of sites are ending up just looking Bootstrap clones of each other with different names and logos. Standards are great and I'm all for them but for the love of god, please at least make it your own. Making it your own does not mean you have to deviate from any standard and that's a big part of what the author was getting at.

Re: Great, Another Bootstrap Site

#73

Post by methodin »

Most people will never even know what the hell you are talking about with the word "Bootstrap", so just because we can recognize these things as developers/designers does not mean it has any influence whatsoever on your users. I'd much rather see a generic bootstrap site than a piece of crap design personally. I would hope many of you would agree.

Re: Great, Another Bootstrap Site

#74

Post by billpatrianakos »

va_coder wrote: post #18

I think this post is ridiculous. You know how many great law firms have website themes from the 90s? How many great restaurants have that crappy flash intro? Lots of them and I'm still going to use their service regardless. "How depressing is it to go through this gallery of sites built with Bootstrap?" How depressing is it to go to some site that's been hyped up, see a great design, and then see no compelling produc…

You may not be swayed by the design of sites but the majority of people are. A big mistake people make when approaching design is thinking their attitudes apply to "most people". It takes training and experience to really get a feel for how "the average person" will react to something.

Re: Great, Another Bootstrap Site

#75

Post by joering2 »

rndmize wrote: post #56
typicalrunt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 to this. When I talk to other designers and inevitably get into arguments with them about standards, I try to get them to see it from a consumer's point of view for non-IT products. There are a lot of non-IT products that have the same design: doors to houses, door knobs, rear-view mirrors, tires. The list goes on. While it's fun to see a new design to a Web site/app, even as a techie I sometimes struggle with usi…

I find this and the parent to be flawed. Door, knobs and so on come in a wide variety of shapes, materials and colors; and so do buttons (open an explorer or finder window - almost every means of interacting with these relies on a button, and they vary widely in appearance.) The argument this blog post makes isn't that there's a problem with standards, but that a lot of people are using bootstrap without any modifica…

I found your opinion to be flawed, IMHO.

While most knobs looks similar, you always can see before even touching whether this knob is a rotating one or just press a handle. Furthermore, I have never seen a door with a knob to be placed 10 inches from the ceiling (or the floor), something that would definitely be considered "original" and "nonstandard".

Re: Great, Another Bootstrap Site

#76

Post by jamiequint »

'Normals' (http://cdixon.org/2010/01/22/techies-and-normals/) don't give a shit. Unless your audience is purely people deep into technology that look at and analyze sites all day the average person isn't going to know the difference between the site you spent a month designing to be pixel perfect and your average bootstrap site. I tend to find that focusing on the user interactions is way more valuable than focusing on the 'design' (meaning how it looks), bootstrap makes the 'design' part easy, freeing me up to spend my time on other things. This is generally a big win.

Re: Great, Another Bootstrap Site

#77

Post by Buzaga »

Websites and projects that are meant to be used by non-techies probably wouldn't regard this as an issue... of course since we are techies we notice at the first hit of the eye, but normal people? my guess is that it will take much a bigger part of the web using bootstrap and a lot of time for them to notice and start to care....

also, I really suck at design, I f*cking hate it, it takes me weeks to produce something acceptable even with bootstrap...what am I going to do?

Re: Great, Another Bootstrap Site

#78

Post by Yxven »

The real problem is that web design is about 100x harder than it should be. I'm not saying there shouldn't be room for the artists to outshine the rest of us, but there's no excuse for why placing elements with css is so hard. Different browsers shouldn't have different names and syntax for the same features. The cascade makes it difficult to mix templates without adjusting a million different things.

Bootstrap solves most of this. That is why it's becoming prevalent. The only way this trend will stop is a high-quality cross-browser WYSIWYG editor.

Re: Great, Another Bootstrap Site

#79

Post by Buzaga »

Buzaga wrote: post #77

Websites and projects that are meant to be used by non-techies probably wouldn't regard this as an issue... of course since we are techies we notice at the first hit of the eye, but normal people? my guess is that it will take much a bigger part of the web using bootstrap and a lot of time for them to notice and start to care.... also, I really suck at design, I f*cking hate it, it takes me weeks to produce something…

I mean, I can get annoyed looking at this bootstrap list too, I also believe the least that should be done is try to custom it a little so it doesn't look just like another bootstrap page... but again, webdesigning is a PAINFUL(and I mean it) thing for me to do...

Re: Great, Another Bootstrap Site

#80

Post by virtualeyes »

I agree with the OP, pretty spot on, while bootstrap sites look good, they generally all look the same. For CRUD/admin, yes, bootstrap is a definite go; for public front facing, not for my clients.

Client identity should be based on a unique brand, and bootstrap, short of major tweaks, does not provide that.

To umm, boot, boostrap is a wee bit on the heavy side for my liking (80KB css minified), and the javascript features are not mind blowing (for example, would prefer flyout menus like in Foundation or HTML Kickstart).

I'm rolling with Skeleton and jquerytools (sadly behind the maintenance curve) on the front end.

If bootstrap becomes themeable, I'll consider using on the front end, but until then, differentiation is king in my book.

Post reply on HN