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Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

washingtonpost.com

71–80 of 660 posts

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#71

Loads of proposals, all missing the obvious: solve poverty. Portugal and south Europe in general suffer greatly from it. Stats make the region look good on paper but reality is very different.

Thanks, but the poor are not necessarily drug abusers. Drug abusers may fall into poverty, but not the way around. There's a wealth of drug abuse in rich societies - the fact that SF, one of the richest city on the earth, became a drug hot spot is an example.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#72
post #42

> Porto’s police have increased patrols to drug-plagued neighborhoods. But given existing laws, there’s only so much they can do. On a recent afternoon, an emaciated man in striped pants sleeping in front of a state-funded drug-use center awoke to a patrol of four officers. He sat up, then defiantly began assembling his crack pipe. Officers walked on, shaking their heads. What were they supposed to in a different cou…

Arrest him and put him through forced rehab.

I wonder what is the effectiveness rate of forced rehab programs.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#73

Has any advanced civilization been gung-ho about legalized drugs? There are probably strong socioevolutionary reasons why this is the case.

Before the invention of antibiotics almost all medicine was nonsense and the drugs available were mostly alcohol, cocaine, opium, aspirin and caffeine. It is only since the 1950s that there is a huge amount of different drugs and mass production on top of it.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#74
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment gave me SF vibes. Somewhere in the middle; the answer isn't jailing or ignoring.

The answer is treating it as a medical and social problem, it's a known solution, it just costs money and Portugal decided in 2012 to cheap out on it, outsource it, and then act shocked when it went wrong.

What is the known solution? I don't know much about this area.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#75

> Porto’s police have increased patrols to drug-plagued neighborhoods. But given existing laws, there’s only so much they can do. On a recent afternoon, an emaciated man in striped pants sleeping in front of a state-funded drug-use center awoke to a patrol of four officers. He sat up, then defiantly began assembling his crack pipe. Officers walked on, shaking their heads. What were they supposed to in a different cou…

I don't get it. Someone smoking something doesn't bother me, unless maybe if I can smell it, then it bothers me very, very slightly. The same way someone drinking a beer in public doesn't bother me. How could it?

If sleeping on the street is a crime, enforce that crime. Don't pretend that if we magically banned all of the hypothetical reasons people might commit that crime that it will eliminate that crime. We can't enforce every-fucking-thing - and we have proven conclusively that we can never effectively ban popular street drugs - so let's focus instead on crimes with victims and enforce them more aggressively.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#76
post #72
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arrest him and put him through forced rehab.

I wonder what is the effectiveness rate of forced rehab programs.

It’s very low, lower than regular rehab, which is already not that effective.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#77

Talk about burying the lede, 11 years ago they privatized their drug oversight operation and cut funding by over 80%. Gee, I wonder if that could have an impact? > After years of economic crisis, Portugal decentralized its drug oversight operation in 2012. A funding drop from 76 million euros ($82.7 million) to 16 million euros ($17.4 million) forced Portugal’s main institution to outsource work previously done by th…

Same sort of thing happened with mental illness in california, probably a leading cause of homelessness problems.

Years ago, the law was changed to allow mentally-ill but benign or even non-ill people to escape the "snake pits", mental institutions that kept people incarcerated and drugged. This allowed lots of people to recover.

But then Ronald Reagan (as governor of california) cut state mental illness funding.

Now clearly mentally ill people - who needed help - were turned away unless they were clearly "a danger to themselves and others".

Many homeless people are these mentally ill people, and they can't get help (and they can't be forced in unless they are dangerous, which is usually how recovery begins)

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#78
post #35

Has any advanced civilization been gung-ho about legalized drugs? There are probably strong socioevolutionary reasons why this is the case.

Canada is pretty much fine with drugs, as well as California

Yes, and our opioid situation is just super, nothing to see here!

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#79
post #42

> Porto’s police have increased patrols to drug-plagued neighborhoods. But given existing laws, there’s only so much they can do. On a recent afternoon, an emaciated man in striped pants sleeping in front of a state-funded drug-use center awoke to a patrol of four officers. He sat up, then defiantly began assembling his crack pipe. Officers walked on, shaking their heads. What were they supposed to in a different cou…

Arrest him and put him through forced rehab.

Why, what did this person do that was so serious they should be jailed?

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#80

People who think drugs should be descriminalized often have no experience with actual criminal justice, and are often recreational drug users themselves (i.e. too close to the issue). It is a conspiracy theory to believe that drug criminalization has a strictly for-profit motive despite near universal adoption as a policy. That is to say, you believe a conspiracy theory casually.

"Strictly" seems to be constructing a strawman - I would guess almost everyone who believes in decriminalization acknowledges other motives like puritanicalism, racism, classism, labor productivity, adherence to the societal norms, etc.
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