‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#71

Post by lockhouse » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 6:12 PM UTC

mitt_romney_12 wrote: post #36

bletchp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Puberty blockers have been administered as a valid treatment for precocious puberty for many decades. That's a different treatment though, because puberty eventually resumes. Halting it entirely is more akin to the castrati children [1] who had their puberty physically blocked through removal of testicles. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato

Puberty blockers are not permanent [1] they're taken until people start hormone therapy at which point they go through normal puberty [1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dyspho...

Hormone treatments can result in permanent irreversible changes, such as sterility. Surgeries are also not completely reversible.

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#72

Post by sudosysgen » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 6:15 PM UTC

Georgelemental wrote: post #21

sudosysgen wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Puberty blockers are given to kids all the time for things as frivolous as them not being tall enough, and have a benign safety profile, especially when they're discontinued before the age of ~16 (which is the case here). They've been used for more than 40 years and few grave side effects have been recorded. It's not a new thing, as I've said, it was and still is fairly common for short kids to be put on GnRH blocker…

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9150228/ > With puberty blockers and in adults treated with GAHT, unintended systemic biological changes may occur which may increase the risk of chronic diseases, such as osteoporosis. Sex hormones are well known in playing a crucial role in bone acquisition at puberty, 6 and in adulthood, it regulates bone homeostasis.7–9 Therefore, hormone treatments (puberty blockers a…

I don't understand the point you're trying to make. Yes, GnRH blockers will affect bones in adulthood, that's exactly why they're used to make kids taller, because they give more time for bones to develop. This is, of course, an unintended effect in the context of transgender healthcare, but it's fairly benign.

Gender affirming hormones, such as estrogen, do cause osteoporosis - that's why women are more prone to osteoporosis than men. Puberty blockers have not been linked to osteoporosis in pre-pubescent patients, despite more than 40 years of use.

GnRH blockers are however dangerous in adults because you need adult level of sex hormones for your bodily function and as such are generally not used for an extended period of time - in pre-pubescent children however it moreso prevents their increase from puberty than it suppresses current levels. This is because GnRH is not produced in significant quantities before puberty, so suppressing it further has far fewer side effects.

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#73

Post by peanutcrisis » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 6:20 PM UTC

theprincess wrote: post #43

TurkishPoptart wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Agnes Torres Being intersex is very rare and unfortunate, and I am sympathetic to those with such birth defects. However, the explosion in "trans kids" has nothing to do with being intersex and has everything to do with being a mental craze. There is no explanation for feelings of "gender dysphoria" rising by 1000% among young girls except for it being a mental craze, with all the encouragement and support among the…

> Being intersex is very rare and unfortunate, and I am sympathetic to those with such birth defects. Agnes Torres was not intersex, she was merely classed as such which allowed her to live a normal life. Funny enough, your comment itself shows why this was successful. You see intersex as more legitimate and because of that you "give it a pass." Agnes Torres was transgender, but was treated as legitimate back in the…

I'm not sure what the situation is like now concerning prejudice towards trans people in the US, but looking from the outside, I'm aware of the incredible amount of bad faith coming from medical and activist organisations from within the US.

For instance, any legitimate discussion or criticism about gender-affirming care, possible social cause that's driving the increase of trans-identifying teenagers (confounded by high rates of autism, mental illness, trauma), or how certain trans rights infringes on women's rights, are framed as "transphobic" by these medical and activist organisation. This would also mean that statements made by countries that are arguably more progressive than the US (i.e. UK and European countries) about the current trans issue would fall into that category as well.

Now, against the backdrop of the capture of cultural institutions by radical activists in the US who share a common foundation (critical social justice), it's hard to be sympathetic towards your claim that prejudice is what's holding them back, when the actions of the medical and activist organisations in the US is consistent with the silencing of valid criticism that other factions of the critical social justice adherents (i.e. race) have a track record of.

In other words, it's hard to believe that the medical and activist organisations in the US are actually acting in good faith; they are weaponising our empathy for marginalised groups to silence legitimate criticisms about a medical scandal and the ideological foundations driving the scandal.

Edit: Anyone of sound mind can clearly evaluate that my point isn't transphobic. The reply to this comment is a demonstration of what's wrong with the US.

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#74

Post by feggal » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 6:23 PM UTC

peanutcrisis wrote: post #73

theprincess wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being intersex is very rare and unfortunate, and I am sympathetic to those with such birth defects. Agnes Torres was not intersex, she was merely classed as such which allowed her to live a normal life. Funny enough, your comment itself shows why this was successful. You see intersex as more legitimate and because of that you "give it a pass." Agnes Torres was transgender, but was treated as legitimate back in the…

I'm not sure what the situation is like now concerning prejudice towards trans people in the US, but looking from the outside, I'm aware of the incredible amount of bad faith coming from medical and activist organisations from within the US. For instance, any legitimate discussion or criticism about gender-affirming care, possible social cause that's driving the increase of trans-identifying teenagers (confounded by…

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Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#75

Post by feggal » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 6:23 PM UTC

lockhouse wrote: post #71

mitt_romney_12 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Puberty blockers are not permanent [1] they're taken until people start hormone therapy at which point they go through normal puberty [1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dyspho...

Hormone treatments can result in permanent irreversible changes, such as sterility. Surgeries are also not completely reversible.

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Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#76

Post by feggal » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 6:24 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #58

mitt_romney_12 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be linear? The reasons it's increasing is because people no longer feel as much pressure to hide their true identity. It's the same reason that the number of left handed people doubled from 1920 to 1960 [1], it's not a conspiracy it's just the way social norms work [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/07/americas-...

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Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#77

Post by peanutcrisis » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 6:30 PM UTC

theprincess wrote: post #70

tinus_hn wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just that people don't like the idea of children being transgender, probably because it reminds them that they could potentially have a gay or transgender child. A shallow dismissal, a perfectly reasonable argument against irreversible action for changing children’s genders is that many of them aren’t so sure as it seems and later want to transition back.

> A shallow dismissal, a perfectly reasonable argument against irreversible action for changing children’s genders is that many of them aren’t so sure as it seems and later want to transition back. About 2% want to transition back. 98% are quite sure, and are happy with being treated. Trans youth who are not treated tend to be miserable as adults, with many committing suicide since their bodies have been shaped by th…

If you're not ideologically invested in this topic and are sincerely interested in the truth, I'd urge you to look at your own country from an outsider's point of view. The point being, many sources in the US that were reputable (i.e. scientific american) are parroting misinformation about this topic in service of ideology. That much is obvious to someone who does not live in the anglo-sphere. To address your claims, I'd recommend you check out Hannah Barnes' book, "Time to Think". This much should show that the study you're relying on is dubious, and transitively, your rhetoric.

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#78

Post by peanutcrisis » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 6:37 PM UTC

anaisbetts wrote: post #50

Georgelemental wrote: post #17

Puberty is an incredibly complicated process, involving innumerable intertwined signaling pathways, gene expression changes, physical and mental changes, etc. We are only beginning to understand it all; to think we can just "pause" it like an MP3 player is the height of hubris. These experimental treatments have many potential negative side effects, including osteoporosis and infertility. Teenagers who feel insecure…

For the record people that transition, AT ALL AGES, overwhelmingly stay that way and do not regret their decision. * Here is the [*APA's policy statement*]( http://www.apa.org/about/policy/transgender.aspx ) on the necessity and efficacy of transition as the appropriate treatment for gender dysphoria. More from the APA [*here*]( http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/programs/transgender/?tab=1 ) * Here is an [*AMA resolution*](…

I'd strongly recommend anyone interested in this topic to find sources outside of the US. The foundation of these studies are largely dubious, consistent with the kind of replication crisis you see in the medical field. Throw activism into the mix and these sources are now biased towards certain outcomes.

For those who lean left, I strongly recommend reading up on Hannah Barnes' book, "Time to Think". The UK and the EU have deemed "gender-affirming care" experimental with US holding out. This should definitely give some pause.

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#79

Post by theprincess » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 6:38 PM UTC

mckern wrote: post #65

mitt_romney_12 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Puberty blockers are not permanent [1] they're taken until people start hormone therapy at which point they go through normal puberty [1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dyspho...

Puberty blockers are claimed to be non-permanent. However, that can't be verified at present [0]. In light of that, such a claim being made in the first place is definitely medical malpractice of some sorts. Also, I do not think medical sources from America are reliable for this topic. The UK and the EU have moved away from gender-affirming care and designated it an experimental treatment. Medical and psychological a…

> The UK and the EU have moved away from gender-affirming care and designated it an experimental treatment.

The UK and EU are hardly a paradise for trans people. Until recently they even REQUIRED trans people to be sterilized, I suppose under the dual assumptions that 1.) they weren't fit to have children and 2.) if there's a genetic component to being transgender it's best to weed it out.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/world/europe/european-cou... (this was only stricken down in 2013)

These days, you'll notice a lot of europeans calling to clamp down on transgender people because they'd prefer for them to be gay. Conversion therapy is conversion therapy, however, and whether you do it US style where you try to make someone a good straight Christian or European style where you try to make them a feminine male or butch female, it's still wrong.

As for sterilization, people bring this up without pointing out that we can bank sperm and eggs. A treatment plan for trans youth can wait until they reach a tanner stage (these are the stages of puberty) where they can bank before starting puberty blockers. That is more reasonable than an outright ban.

As for Lupron's side effects, parents are informed about possible side effects. Just like with precocious puberty. It remains telling that families are allowed to access these treatments for some reasons but not others. The double standard betrays prejudice and political meddling in the affairs of parents and doctors.

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#80

Post by tinus_hn » Fri, Jul 07, 2023, 6:43 PM UTC

theprincess wrote: post #70

tinus_hn wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just that people don't like the idea of children being transgender, probably because it reminds them that they could potentially have a gay or transgender child. A shallow dismissal, a perfectly reasonable argument against irreversible action for changing children’s genders is that many of them aren’t so sure as it seems and later want to transition back.

> A shallow dismissal, a perfectly reasonable argument against irreversible action for changing children’s genders is that many of them aren’t so sure as it seems and later want to transition back. About 2% want to transition back. 98% are quite sure, and are happy with being treated. Trans youth who are not treated tend to be miserable as adults, with many committing suicide since their bodies have been shaped by th…

Even assuming your study is true, the argument against irreversibly treating children is still a reasonable position and not the shallowly insulting straw man argument you present as the only option.