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Return to Office Enters the Desperation Phase

nytimes.com

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Re: Return to Office Enters the Desperation Phase

#71

Post by joezydeco »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #11
joezydeco wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took a significant pay increase on a new job with the understanding that the role would be hybrid, two days a week. That was agreed upon above everything else. Our whole team agreed to do the two days so we could have our project meetings in the lab and do our scrums in person. We also acknowledged that the days are shorter because of commuting time and productivity will not be as strong because of the office envir…

It sounds like a good setup, mostly because everyone knew ahead of time what they were getting into, and understood what in-office days were going to be like!

I realize I'm lucky that I found a group that picked a plan that worked for them. The company overall hasn't set an RTO plan in place, but we're predicting that will happen soon and maybe by demonstrating we already have a hybrid plan that's working, they'll leave us alone.

And maybe that's the solution, if you're willing to do a bit of hybrid work. Get a plan going before you have one pushed upon you.

Re: Return to Office Enters the Desperation Phase

#72

Post by HappySweeney »

asnyder wrote: post #2

Funny how they close the article with an in office gossip update as being an example of a major benefit of coming in. Really, couldn't close on something more substantial to the business?

Sure that stuff is nice, but is it worth burning $200 and 30 hours every month?

Re: Return to Office Enters the Desperation Phase

#73

Post by doitLP »

x86x87 wrote: post #64

At this point this is just propaganda. The desperation phase? Yes, for employers. Watch this whole RTO thing collapse and corpos "changing their mind" once the herd gas been thinned and 2024, an elections year, rolls around. They have limited time to pull this off.

What does an election year have to do with it?

Re: Return to Office Enters the Desperation Phase

#74

Post by czbond »

candiodari wrote: post #58
jgeada wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that my employer makes more money from me than they pay me in salary, that carrot is for them, not me.

This is what people always forget about work relationships. You need it for money. But if the employer doesn't also need it for money ... you don't have a job! So you are almost always in a situation that your employer needs you more than you need your employer.

> So you are almost always in a situation that your employer needs you more than you need your employer.

Disagree with enough nuance to matter. The company needs someone, not necessarily you. It matters when it's your paycheck.

Re: Return to Office Enters the Desperation Phase

#75

Post by helij »

smcleod wrote: post #5

I’ve been seeing companies that have tried to get people to commute to/from and “work” from their office (any number of days) starting to lose the good people - the ones you want to keep around. I’ve kept in contact with a couple of them and they’re now 100% remote, one is working for a local company the other an international and they seem genuinely so much happier.

We have a completely flexible working arrangement. Pretty much 'do what you want'. We provide equipment for working from home and we also have offices stocked with food, etc.

If we changed that and demanded return to office I know for a fact that the most capable people would be the first to give notice and we would immediately be less profitable.

Re: Return to Office Enters the Desperation Phase

#76

Post by czbond »

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #41
czbond wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could consider a paycheck a carrot....

As opposed to workers working for the company for free?

As opposed to a hyper competitive market where the worker is replaceable due to the market OR a market where there is literally little to no high paying jobs available, even for qualified applicants.

Re: Return to Office Enters the Desperation Phase

#77

Post by matthewowen »

esarbe wrote: post #28
Zetice wrote: post #18

There are so many downsides to WFH, and even the upsides encourage the opposite behaviors you want in a team, so this is in no way surprising. The larger permanent WFH experiment failed. That said, not every role, in every situation, needs in person interaction. It’s even reasonable to argue not every day needs in person interaction.

I'm really wondering what kind of downsides you see to WFH; to me, there are only upsides: - no commute - being at home with the people you love and miss - not getting distracted by office drama - simplified work/life integration As a company we're using WFH as a selling point for engineers - they love it.

As an employee, I love WFG/remote work, it's vastly increased my options (I've been working 100% remotely for ~5 years). And so as a company, there's huge upside because you can hire a bigger range of people.

But in person teams are way more effective IMO. I think an example is that (at least in my experience) with colocated teams if you have a problem to work through, you generally keep finding time to work through it until you solve it. With remote teams, it's really easy to become a slave to your calendar: "our one hour is up, maybe let's schedule some time for next week to discuss again". I'm not saying this is a trap that everyone is guaranteed to fall into, but I _do_ think that it's a case where there are a bunch of behavioral nudges that make collaborative work much more natural in person. In a lot of cases, that's very valuable!

Re: Return to Office Enters the Desperation Phase

#78

Post by helij »

uxp100 wrote: post #17
smcleod wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the complete opposite when you’re in person. It’s so much more rude as your demanding their immediate attention at a time that suits you. Remote you can manage your notifications and methods of contact which is so much healthier.

Rather not rehash this discussion, but just a reminder that some people feel exactly opposite. In person disruption is really no big deal for me, but slack is a tool that destroys all productivity.

Notifications on Slack can be turned off.

Re: Return to Office Enters the Desperation Phase

#79

Post by smileysteve »

czbond wrote: post #19
pavel_lishin wrote: post #10

Another anecdote to throw in the bucket: they announced that we'll be returning to the office on July 10th, and also that we'll be pausing catered lunches on July 7th. (I know that it's the peak of privilege to complain about not getting free food delivered to work, but this feels like all-stick, and literally no carrots.)

One could consider a paycheck a carrot....

It's only a carrot if it changes the status quo;

If the employee is getting paid the same amount, and can get paid a similar amount for a different company without going to the office, it's not a carrot.

Re: Return to Office Enters the Desperation Phase

#80

Post by WkndTriathlete »

Zetice wrote: post #45
esarbe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really wondering what kind of downsides you see to WFH; to me, there are only upsides: - no commute - being at home with the people you love and miss - not getting distracted by office drama - simplified work/life integration As a company we're using WFH as a selling point for engineers - they love it.

- Encourages less communication on team - Harder to join team for new members - Harder to learn field for novices - Lack of unit cohesion through informal interactions - Lack of access to equipment and tools necessary to complete job effectively - Lower social interaction - Risk of underworking - Risk of overworking - Unending distractions The list goes on... The interactions that take place when humans are next to o…

Funny, I've found that a hybrid scrum model works extremely well to address almost all items on your list, and works across the spectrum of personality types. M/W/F normal stand-ups and T/Th 1:1s with each team member or small group.

The one thing it can't address (unending distractions) is a red herring. Either you've hired an employee that can manage their own time or you haven't. If they can't manage their time while WFH I doubt they would be much better managing their time WFO, either.

I've found it's only bad management (and in some cases, access to exotic/expensive hardware) for WFH to not work for software development.

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