Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

rpgwatch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 113 posts

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#71

Post by NamTaf »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #13
j1elo wrote: post #3

What were the chances? I installed Planescape Torment last night, to play around a bit with it. It's been sitting in my "to-try" list for at least 15 years! I'm however not very fond of having to sit down on my desk to play games with keyboard and mouse, though... I already spend enough of my life sitting in the exact same position for work. That alone discourages me from playing several old games I own (and not so o…

What are your other methods of playing besides keyboard and mouse? The newest monkey Island is steam Deck verified and also works with gamepad on your tv computer etc :) I think new x-com games are steam deck playable. And original xcom game is eminently playable on any old laptop :)

One of the steam deck's really underappreciated features is the trackpads. You can use them to play a whole heap of KB+M games that were otherwise off bounds for a handheld.

I've been playing through the Sam & Max episodic games this way: trackpad for pointer, and buttons for clicks. It doesn't need fast-paced interactions so it's very forgiving there. When more speed is needed, I've heard others combine the trackpad with some minor gyro mouse input such that the touchpad does the coarse pointer manipulation and then gyro does the fine detail. Apparently you can get quite fast with this approach.

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#72

Post by NamTaf »

IggleSniggle wrote: post #49
hutzlibu wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you replace a mouse with it? Is it with a touchscreen or knobs on the side? I think I would still miss a mouse for precision and speed with that ..

There are capacitive touchpads on both sides of the deck, but calling them that really sells them short. It has an extensive controller mapping system. I play a lot of strategy and RTS games, and they can be set up with a wide variety of customizable overlays and haptics, that you can mix with button-chording as desired

It's worth also emphasising that they can be combined, so that you can combine the touchpads with the gyro such that the touchpads do coarse mouse movement and the gyro does the fine tweaking. This is apparently surprisingly effective, though I've not tried it myself.

Similarly, for FPS the gyro can be used for additional aiming and even set such that it's only enabled when one of the joysticks is touched (via the capacitive receiver).

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#73

Post by badpun »

smcl wrote: post #18
v-erne wrote: post #11

>> Tons of Total Babes: This game will have lots of babes that make the player go “wow.” >> There will be fiendish babes, human babes, angelic babes, asian babes, and even undead babes. Well, I did not expected this level of honesty about what target audience really want. It almost like finding "and its also addictive, in most profitable kind of way" in Marlboro brand pitch deck. Its kinda refrshing.

Then a few sections later > Babes: Think babes. Then think more babes. Slightly different times :)

I don't think so. The language used in 2023 may be different, but the intent is the same: "Give them nudity, give them sex, give them violence. This is what will make us money".

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#74

Post by ksaun »

User23 wrote: post #53
watashiato wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who haven't played the game, it should be noted that the game is nothing like what the pitch implies. PS:T is a well written and introspective RPG and in this capacity it is rivaled by only a handful of contenders.

Disco Elysium, which I haven't gotten around to playing yet so I have no personal opinion, is the only contender I can think of. The only other game I can think of with that level of narrative craft is the Marathon series, which isn't an RPG, but rather an FPS. I'm kind of surprised Marathon 4 hasn't been kickstarted yet. There is definitely a whole lot of money on the table there, as the System Shock remake proves.

(FWIW, the studio with which I'm affiliated (https://digimancygames.com) is focused on narrative-driven CRPGs in the vein of games like PS:T and Disco Elysium. We have assembled three of the Disco Elysium writers and other talent in this space. We have an internal project, but are seeking publishing partners or investors.)

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#75

Post by Waterluvian »

gilbetron wrote: post #33

My gaming group had a big ole Planescape campaign in 1995/1996, and the DM, myself and my then-girlfriend, now wife, went to Gencon. We met the creators, and did some fun little Planescape sessions they had set up. In our campaign, my wife was playing a red-headed tiefling with a devil's tail named Lilah. Being nerds, we of course told the Planescape devs all about our campaign. My wife even has a sketch of Lilah fro…

While the redhead devil tiefling” motif is very common due to the horns and core concept behind the race, that’s a really warming story nevertheless.

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#76

Post by ethbr0 »

badsectoracula wrote: post #31
v-erne wrote: post #11

>> Tons of Total Babes: This game will have lots of babes that make the player go “wow.” >> There will be fiendish babes, human babes, angelic babes, asian babes, and even undead babes. Well, I did not expected this level of honesty about what target audience really want. It almost like finding "and its also addictive, in most profitable kind of way" in Marlboro brand pitch deck. Its kinda refrshing.

> Well, I did not expected this level of honesty about what target audience really want. IIRC it was the other way around, the pitch document went overboard with that because it was what the executives/publisher believed audiences would want :-) Remember this wasn't the design document but the document to convince those with money to spend that money to make the game.

For younger folks, I would suggest looking at E3 convention 1998 and 1999 galleries.

That will tell you what you need to know about the state of the computer gaming industry and publishers at that point.

This was circa-"John Romero's about to make you his bitch" [0] as acceptable copy for a full-page ad.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daikatana#Promotion_and_rele...

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#77

Post by bourneavent »

smcl wrote: post #18
v-erne wrote: post #11

>> Tons of Total Babes: This game will have lots of babes that make the player go “wow.” >> There will be fiendish babes, human babes, angelic babes, asian babes, and even undead babes. Well, I did not expected this level of honesty about what target audience really want. It almost like finding "and its also addictive, in most profitable kind of way" in Marlboro brand pitch deck. Its kinda refrshing.

Then a few sections later > Babes: Think babes. Then think more babes. Slightly different times :)

This language is unconventional for business even in the 90s. Additionally men wouldn't talk this way in front of women in Any time.

The difference now is it's less culturally accepted to talk like this even in casual situations even when just among men.

Plenty women objectify men by wealth and status and they refer to men this way even publicly. The cultural change is mostly one sided, skewed more towards not offending women.

For example, referring to men as Hunks or Chads is just not offensive at all. In fact it's a compliment. I feel it's almost entitlement if a girl gets offended by being called a babe.

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#78

Post by ajuc »

the_af wrote: post #63
v-erne wrote: post #11

>> Tons of Total Babes: This game will have lots of babes that make the player go “wow.” >> There will be fiendish babes, human babes, angelic babes, asian babes, and even undead babes. Well, I did not expected this level of honesty about what target audience really want. It almost like finding "and its also addictive, in most profitable kind of way" in Marlboro brand pitch deck. Its kinda refrshing.

The actual game is nothing like this at all. There are a couple of unfortunate character portraits of "babes", that don't match the actual character descriptions or behavior. It's the only juvenile aspect to the game, along with some of Morte's quips. The actual game is neither juvenile nor a power fantasy. It is an anti-power-fantasy. It is about atonement for past misdeeds. Killing is often not the solution, and in…

I think this is a common problem artists have to deal with. The art they want to make (and that fans want to get) vs the industry approval filter. You have to lie to at least one of these groups.

See new Netflix shows for how idiotic and self-sabotaging it can get if you choose lying to fans (see Witcher).

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#79

Post by bourneavent »

checkyoursudo wrote: post #47
smcl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then a few sections later > Babes: Think babes. Then think more babes. Slightly different times :)

It strikes me as not a little weird that the word for a hot, sexy member of either sex is the same as a word for a very, very small child. Like, "Why, hello there, infant." dogwhistle

That's because they call you "Daddy" in the bedroom.

There's actually sort of a real reason for this. In the traditional monogamous or even polygamous relationship throughout human history it's usually the Male taking care of the female. Women when seeking a relationship are sort of searching for a caretaker that has sort of father like qualities of having enough resources to take care of them, taking a dominant role... etc.

The relationship most similar to it is father and daughter I can sort of see why the linguistics have sort of merged.

Obviously, in the last century, things have changed and the etiquette of relationship dynamics need to be spoken of in a way that's more egalitarian.

But you can't completely deny millions of years of human anthropological behavior. If men usually played more dominant/caretaker roles in relationships in the majority of civilizations, then along that timescale certain behaviors become a bit ingrained biologically through natural selection. It's not surprising to see these attributes creep into language.

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#80

Post by hn_go_brrrrr »

ajuc wrote: post #78
the_af wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual game is nothing like this at all. There are a couple of unfortunate character portraits of "babes", that don't match the actual character descriptions or behavior. It's the only juvenile aspect to the game, along with some of Morte's quips. The actual game is neither juvenile nor a power fantasy. It is an anti-power-fantasy. It is about atonement for past misdeeds. Killing is often not the solution, and in…

I think this is a common problem artists have to deal with. The art they want to make (and that fans want to get) vs the industry approval filter. You have to lie to at least one of these groups. See new Netflix shows for how idiotic and self-sabotaging it can get if you choose lying to fans (see Witcher).

What's the problem with the Witcher?
Post reply on HN