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What motorcycles teach about maintenance

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Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#71

Post by BluePen7 »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #50
NikolaNovak wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not even remotely an expert, but many motorcycles I've seen that spent couple of years in the storage, let alone ones as old as that, need a lot of gaskets, seals, tubing and what-nots worked on or replaced - or at least examined/tested/cleaned. Plus you want to give a conservative estimate. Also remember - if I am doing repairs for fun, I only count the parts cost. But if I go to professional mechanic, it's $10…

Bike mechanics are in high demand and not super common. The quote he gave seemed super on point to me. It’s what I’d charge if someone asked me to do the same thing. I could probably get it running for less but it would probably continue to break down over time

Just due to the lower volume the price jumps up unexpectedly.

For the labour of an oil change, I was quoted $25 for my car, and $65 for my motorcycle.

To change the oil and filter on my car, you have to reach in a super terrible spot prone to burning and cutting people who attempt it.

On my motorcycle? It's an enduro, I have a foot of clearance and can see the single bolt required from across the driveway, it also requires exactly 2 quarts.

I got quite quick at changing my bike oil, and continued to pay someone else to burn themselves on my car.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#72

Post by taeric »

ben7799 wrote: post #70
taeric wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly. But the premise was 'Nobody proclaims “Live to ride! Ride to live!” about cars.' Obviously, the bit about there being popular philosophy written around motorcycles is true, but I'm not sure that proves much? I'm surprised you would say modern motorcycles aren't harder, honestly. Even modern bicycles are getting into the "you really can't do this without a dedicated shop" for a lot of things. Regular mainte…

I didn't mean modern motorcycles weren't more complicated than older motorcycles. It's just nowhere near as severe as cars where the manufacturers are ultra hostile to the owner working on the car and even do their best to make it hard for independent mechanics & shops to work on it. If cars were like motorcycles I doubt we'd have movements for right to repair.

Right, I'm still surprised that motorcycles aren't just as hostile. Even tractors have gotten notorious for how user hostile they are.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#73

Post by BluePen7 »

ambicapter wrote: post #42
Fradow wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also have a plan B if things go south. And yes, that means not working on your daily (or someone else) if you don't have a backup transportation solution. Because just like we have bugs in production, things break when you wrench on them, even if you do everything by the book (note: first-hand experience there). But those are just setbacks, and no big deal if you are prepared for them.

So basically if you want to work on your vehicle, you need a second vehicle. That was basically the reason I could never get behind doing work on my own car.

Unless you have a bus route that goes straight to the auto parts store, yeah that's the ideal.

Often I'd invite a friend over while I did the work, keeps me company and that way they can be the backup vehicle (and I'd return the favour).

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#74

Post by BluePen7 »

bityard wrote: post #60
dmckeon wrote: post #41

I expected the writer's footnote regarding organ donation to be anecdotal, but was surprised to find studies confirming a small, but significant basis in fact: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/articl... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33334475/ https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/motorcycle-rallies-and-o...

People in the medical field refer to motorcycle riders pejoratively as "organ donors". Which is fair, given how most riders I see out on the road have zero concern for their own safety, let alone others.

Even as a rider myself, just seeing how others ride I'd agree.

If you're going to go twice the speed people are expecting a vehicle to go, in a space nobody expected a vehicle to fit, in a vehicle that offers none of the usual protections, your luck may run out sooner than average.

It's frustrating because everyone wanted to cite the statistics at me when I started riding, but I just wished I could get those stats filtered by people who ride in a civilized manner.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#75

Post by ben7799 »

ecefour wrote: post #46
artisanspam wrote: post #30

I’m curious to hear the perspective of someone who is both into motorcycles and bicycles, as I’ve only ridden on a motorcycle a handful of times, while I cycle nearly daily. Bicycle maintenance can be annoying, but it doesn’t seem nearly as time-intensive as motorcycle maintenance. On the other hand, the process of cycling feels better to me compared to being on a motor bike. It’s quieter, slower, and great exercise.…

To me bicycle maintenance is tedious. It’s something I do too on keep my bike running smoothly but not something I look forward to. Motorcycle maintenance is more rewarding. I have a 70s bike so it requires a lot of work to keep it running smoothly. Motorcycle maintenance more complex and I find far more enjoyment in it. It can be tedious, but it’s not as bad as adjusting a derailleur or lubricating a chain. I think…

I kind of see it both ways. Some really complex stuff on motorcycles is incredibly time consuming & hard. The two hardest jobs I did on my motorcycles were:

First - Repairs after a big racetrack crash where the bike slid and then cartwheeled after crashing around 70mph in a corner. Bike would have been totaled for sure if it was a street crash. It took me months to fix everything considering I was working full time.

Second - Repairing a coolant leak in a horrible spot that required removal of gas tank, airbox, EFI system, etc.. massive surgery. The leak was not that bad but was driving me insane and the shops were all trying to talk me out of doing it as they said they'd charge me a lot.

Those big motorcycle maintenance jobs were insanely rewarding once complete though. And I think they cause you to really view that motorcycle as "yours".

Some bike jobs I do find tedious (cleaning) but things like adjusting a derailleur I'm so good at it I can do it in my sleep so it's quick and hard to get bothered.

Bicycle stuff that bothers me is stuff like routing internal cables or bleeding badly designed brake systems. I do tend to do those though as the shop will charge like $100/hr labor for it and tell you that you have to wait weeks for them to do it. Bicycle tools are super overpriced but they still pay for themselves after only 1-2 jobs!

Bicycle repair does not grant as much of a rewarding feeling when your done and so much bicycle stuff is throwaway. The components all wear out pretty fast and are mostly not repairable.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#76

Post by ben7799 »

xkcd-sucks wrote: post #45
artisanspam wrote: post #30

I’m curious to hear the perspective of someone who is both into motorcycles and bicycles, as I’ve only ridden on a motorcycle a handful of times, while I cycle nearly daily. Bicycle maintenance can be annoying, but it doesn’t seem nearly as time-intensive as motorcycle maintenance. On the other hand, the process of cycling feels better to me compared to being on a motor bike. It’s quieter, slower, and great exercise.…

Maybe bicycle racers / crazy downhill mountain bikers will disagree, but half-assed YOLO cowboy maintenance, and deferring of maintenance, feels much less risky on a bicycle than on a motorcycle. Of course the powertrain and packing of components is orders of magnitide more complicated too, it's more similar to car maintenance that doesn't require a lift

I would count as a bicycle racer and crazy mountain biker I guess.

I think the thing is a lot of bicyclists are not really doing things half-assed YOLO style.

Bicycle mechanics are rarely really professionals. There's very little training or education requirement for being one compared to motorcycles or cars.

I have had a lot of cases where so called professional bicycle shops did work that was so bad they'd be in legal trouble if they were working on cars. And I can and do buy most of the same tools they do.

The only thing I really draw the line on is I do not do major wheel repairs or build wheels or disassemble & service hubs. Those jobs are so rare I just can't justify the space or cost for the tools. If I only need something once every 10 years I just can't see dedicating that amount of space & money to it.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#77

Post by unregistereddev »

Having tried to read Persig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, I struggle to understand the book's popularity. The more I read the more I was convinced it was not the work of a healthy mind. Maybe he was schizophrenic? Wikipedia says yes, he was.

As someone who enjoys working on my own car and motorcycle - and as someone who does find a certain zen in maintaining the machines that I own - the book was a profound disappointment. Instead of finding philosophical insight from a relatable perspective, I found the ungrounded ramblings of a man who is seeking to understand a world which only quite exists inside his own mind.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#78

Post by ben7799 »

taeric wrote: post #72
ben7799 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't mean modern motorcycles weren't more complicated than older motorcycles. It's just nowhere near as severe as cars where the manufacturers are ultra hostile to the owner working on the car and even do their best to make it hard for independent mechanics & shops to work on it. If cars were like motorcycles I doubt we'd have movements for right to repair.

Right, I'm still surprised that motorcycles aren't just as hostile. Even tractors have gotten notorious for how user hostile they are.

In terms of your "Live to Ride, Ride to Live" comment I agree with you.

I don't think there's any evidence to suggest passionate motorcyclists are dramatically more passionate than car guys. Lots of car guys have their entire identity tied up in their choice of car and bury themselves financially to drive that car and are pretty much obsessed with it.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#79

Post by tonymet »

taeric wrote: post #64
tonymet wrote: post #54

There is a major step change in maintenance difficulty from motorcycles to cars . motorcycles are more exposed and intimate so it’s easier to detect issues earlier . Modern cars have adopted more non-user-serviceable tech. Intermediate procedures like clutch replacement , brake maintenance , tune ups are accessible to beginners on a motorcycle . in general motorcycle maintenance is more accessible due to the open dri…

Careful, there. Modern motorcycles are probably beyond many home mechanics, as well. Similarly, if it is for the hobby, older cars are fine. And if you don't trust the shop you are taking your vehicle to for rigorous standards, you should probably look into a different shop. :(

can you be more specific ? what systems?

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#80

Post by NikolaNovak »

blahyawnblah wrote: post #61
NikolaNovak wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not even remotely an expert, but many motorcycles I've seen that spent couple of years in the storage, let alone ones as old as that, need a lot of gaskets, seals, tubing and what-nots worked on or replaced - or at least examined/tested/cleaned. Plus you want to give a conservative estimate. Also remember - if I am doing repairs for fun, I only count the parts cost. But if I go to professional mechanic, it's $10…

Couple years ago I took my friend's XR600 out for a trip. It had been sitting for a year or year and a half. Two kicks and it started. Didn't leak at all.

Same with my snowblower. I haven't a clue how that thing manages to start starts!

That being said there's going to be a bell curve. If you're going to ask mechanic for a quote, presumably you were unable to kick start it doth two tries, and now you're in a different bucket.

As well, not all bikes that start are safe to ride. A mechanic may - should - have a safety minded standard of service.

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