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Classic components could be replaced by rubber in next-gen loudspeakers

polytechnique-insights.com

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Re: Classic components could be replaced by rubber in next-gen loudspeakers

#71

Post by fulafel »

teknopaul wrote: post #49
sublinear wrote: post #35

> Current loudspeakers use a magnet coupled with the movement of a copper coil to vibrate a membrane. In the future these heavy, bulky, and expensive components could be replaced by a dielectric elastomer membrane. They mention efficiency, but not power. I don't like how this is framed as the general future of all speakers when it's really just the future of midrange drivers.

Heavy speakers is a plus when moving low frequencies. Otherwise you have to strap or bolt them down and together. _Might_ be the future of mids, but I doubt it. Advancement in ribbon speakers is more likely IMHO. Also people develop a taste for how some speakers sound. I don't see guitar music being played on anything too different for a while, unless it has the same sound character. Even if technically it's a better…

There are cheaper and lower co2 footprint ballasts than copper and magnets for getting the weight.

Re: Classic components could be replaced by rubber in next-gen loudspeakers

#72

Post by atoav »

yummypaint wrote: post #38
_Microft wrote: post #21

These speakers seem to work like this: There is a rubber layer, coated with conducting material to serve as electrodes. The signal is applied in form of a high voltage which makes the electrodes attract each other and contract the rubber in between perpendicular to the surface (i.e. the rubber layer gets thinner). Since the rubber material is relatively incompressible though (volume of the material doesn't change), t…

This sounds like an "electroactive polymer." there are some squishy tapes made by 3m that incidentally have this property out of the box. Make a spot of conductive carbon paint on each side, apply a few kV, and watch the spots double in area as the electrostatic forces squish the material.

The article mentiones "conductive grease" that is added to the membrane.

Re: Classic components could be replaced by rubber in next-gen loudspeakers

#73

Post by formerly_proven »

coldtea wrote: post #33
buildbot wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I am really nonplussed how this is the top post on HN right now (I know that is against the rules to mention but really)

Because it has nothing to do with EL speakers -- this is just the casual HN dismissal

They rather seem to be electrostriction speakers.

Re: Classic components could be replaced by rubber in next-gen loudspeakers

#74

Post by runeks »

I find it a bit strange that this article doesn’t mention electrostatic speakers, as the two appear similar.

It would also be worth mentioning if this new tech suffers from the same limitation as electrostatics, namely that the membrane’s range of motion is so small that you need several square meters of membrane to reproduce low frequencies at high volume.

Re: Classic components could be replaced by rubber in next-gen loudspeakers

#75

Post by namibj »

hristov wrote: post #27
dsr_ wrote: post #2

This appears to be describing an electrostatic speaker. They're on the market, and have been for decades, using mylar or a similar material.

It doesn't. This scheme uses a membrane like the electrostatic speakers, but otherwise it is quite different. In the electrostatic speakers, you load the membrane with extra electrons and then use electro-magnets to apply a varying electric field across the membrane in accordance with your sound signal. Since the membrane has much more electrons than protons, the electric field causes the membrane to move. This metho…

There are no magnets in an electrostatic speaker. They are near-field quasi-static E-field actuators.

Cone+coil speakers are near-field quasi-static H-field actuators.

Re: Classic components could be replaced by rubber in next-gen loudspeakers

#76

Post by tchaffee »

teknopaul wrote: post #49
sublinear wrote: post #35

> Current loudspeakers use a magnet coupled with the movement of a copper coil to vibrate a membrane. In the future these heavy, bulky, and expensive components could be replaced by a dielectric elastomer membrane. They mention efficiency, but not power. I don't like how this is framed as the general future of all speakers when it's really just the future of midrange drivers.

Heavy speakers is a plus when moving low frequencies. Otherwise you have to strap or bolt them down and together. _Might_ be the future of mids, but I doubt it. Advancement in ribbon speakers is more likely IMHO. Also people develop a taste for how some speakers sound. I don't see guitar music being played on anything too different for a while, unless it has the same sound character. Even if technically it's a better…

Considering how many people listen to music through phone speakers or laptop speakers or portable mono speakers I think consumer tolerance is far higher than you're guessing. Many homes these days don't have any speakers aside from the ones that came with the TV and if you want higher quality you reach for the earbuds or headphones. The vast majority of people aren't audiophiles.

Re: Classic components could be replaced by rubber in next-gen loudspeakers

#77

Post by smnscu »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #19
smnscu wrote: post #14

[flagged]

> I had ChatGPT expand on the paragraphs Yeah, don't do that. Nobody wants to read "AI" textspam here in the comments. > so take the audiophile considerations with a grain of salt lol. The understatement of the year. Repeat after me: chatgpt is not deterministic.

I verified that the textspam was indeed correct, and I thought it would be an interesting factoid for HN, as 99.9% of people are only familiar with dynamic driver.

> Repeat after me: chatgpt is not deterministic

Brilliant insight, and definitely a better addition to the thread than somebody trying to add details that presumably only an audiophile would know.

Re: Classic components could be replaced by rubber in next-gen loudspeakers

#78

Post by bob1029 »

elevaet wrote: post #65
bob1029 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The weight of the driver is not really a factor so much as a side effect of the engineering. You want to look at it in terms of total volume displaced and the sensitivity (if you are thinking about efficiency). Drivers with more surface area & excursion typically do have larger magnets and support structures. LFE reproduction is all about moving large volumes of air by any means necessary. There are relatively feathe…

> There are relatively featherweight subwoofers that literally use fans to move volumes of air and achieve performance that is impossible in traditional drivers of any weight class. Wow I've never heard of this, what are these called? Would love to read more about this tech

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_woofer

Re: Classic components could be replaced by rubber in next-gen loudspeakers

#79

Post by Blackthorn »

pseudosaid wrote: post #70
Blackthorn wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"near field speaker" is a marketing term that has no meaning.

thats not true. A near-field speaker tends to be a speaker that performs well at closer distances. its obviously implied given its prefix. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studio_monitor You dont know what you are talking about. “has no meaning” is such a nothing sandwich,

Near field is a property of the space, not the speaker. Would suggest reading https://digistar.cl/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=547

Re: Classic components could be replaced by rubber in next-gen loudspeakers

#80

Post by justinclift »

teknopaul wrote: post #49
sublinear wrote: post #35

> Current loudspeakers use a magnet coupled with the movement of a copper coil to vibrate a membrane. In the future these heavy, bulky, and expensive components could be replaced by a dielectric elastomer membrane. They mention efficiency, but not power. I don't like how this is framed as the general future of all speakers when it's really just the future of midrange drivers.

Heavy speakers is a plus when moving low frequencies. Otherwise you have to strap or bolt them down and together. _Might_ be the future of mids, but I doubt it. Advancement in ribbon speakers is more likely IMHO. Also people develop a taste for how some speakers sound. I don't see guitar music being played on anything too different for a while, unless it has the same sound character. Even if technically it's a better…

While that's true, there are niches that have different requirements.

One that springs to mind (for me) is audio monitors, where speakers are supposed to (in theory) be neutral in order to provide a good reference.

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