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CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

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Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#71

Post by kornhole »

https://sc.vern.cc/@jeff-kaye/cia-mkultra-and-the-cover-up-o... was a good long read. Biowarfare and mind control have come a long way since those relatively ancient times.

Now we have synthetic DNA to develop gain of function in viruses that can target segments of population such as the elders and those with comorbidities. We can follow up on that with proprietary MRNA shots formulated to take down targeted individuals in a one two punch.

MKULTRA ended in name only. NATO now has a sixth operational domain of cognitive warfare that uses social media and other advanced tools. https://www.projectcensored.org/18-the-human-mind-as-new-dom...

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#72

Post by daemoens »

kfrzcode wrote: post #66
retrac wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a constantly changing area of history, so we're on shaky ground. The diaries of the chamberlain to Hirohito were only published a couple years ago, for example. They implicate the emperor deeply in war-time decisions in a way that contradicts the post-war narrative of a hapless well-meaning buffoon misled by his underlings. I suspect the real reason is close to the usually accepted story, though. Millions of…

Sorry, how does history change? I think perhaps the narrative, the evidence on-hand, primary sources, etc. could all be considered and as a body of historical evidence we could say the understanding from our perspective continues to evolve; but there's no world in which the history changes. Events, causality, arrow of time, etc.

I think you are being too pedantic about the word “change”. No one assumed he meant someone went back with a time machine and literally changed history.

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#73

Post by daemoens »

discardedrefuse wrote: post #34
mytailorisrich wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US had invaded Japan, they did not need to be "nice" to acquire any of Japan's knowledge. My understanding is that the US were worried about the communists and Japan's stability in general and decided not to unduly rock the boat.

There's some interesting analysis of WWII that posits that the nukes were completely unnecessary. Stalin was poised to invade Japan from the north so the US had to act fast. https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-jap... I don't know how accurate this is, but its a good read.

The issue with this argument is that neither the bomb nor the imminent Soviet invasion ended the war. The bombs were certainly one of the largest factors that ended the war, but it also wasn't the sole factor that ended the war.

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#74

Post by simple-thoughts »

kfrzcode wrote: post #66
retrac wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a constantly changing area of history, so we're on shaky ground. The diaries of the chamberlain to Hirohito were only published a couple years ago, for example. They implicate the emperor deeply in war-time decisions in a way that contradicts the post-war narrative of a hapless well-meaning buffoon misled by his underlings. I suspect the real reason is close to the usually accepted story, though. Millions of…

Sorry, how does history change? I think perhaps the narrative, the evidence on-hand, primary sources, etc. could all be considered and as a body of historical evidence we could say the understanding from our perspective continues to evolve; but there's no world in which the history changes. Events, causality, arrow of time, etc.

History is not the past - it’s the study of documents from the past. So history changes for two main reasons (1) the uncovering of documents that were not previously available for study and (2) new, more convincing synthesis of the existing body of documents.

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#75

Post by bouncycastle »

bluepizza wrote: post #53
hackerlight wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make sense. The US won and Japan lost, the US could have taken whatever information they wanted to.

It does make a lot of sense. In the most basic terms, almost no American spoke Japanese, let alone at a scientific level. Collaboration would be at the essence. But I think the greater point that you are missing is that you can't walk over a country of 150 million people and achieve total power. Without large doses of good will, collaboration, and soft power, resistance gets in the way of every single goal an occupat…

> almost no American spoke Japanese, let alone at a scientific level.

Nonsense. Quote "the Military Intelligence Service (MIS) trained and graduated nearly 6,000 linguists—the majority of whom were Japanese Americans." Source https://encyclopedia.densho.org/Military%20Intelligence%20Se...

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#76

Post by [deleted] »

kfrzcode wrote: post #66
retrac wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a constantly changing area of history, so we're on shaky ground. The diaries of the chamberlain to Hirohito were only published a couple years ago, for example. They implicate the emperor deeply in war-time decisions in a way that contradicts the post-war narrative of a hapless well-meaning buffoon misled by his underlings. I suspect the real reason is close to the usually accepted story, though. Millions of…

Sorry, how does history change? I think perhaps the narrative, the evidence on-hand, primary sources, etc. could all be considered and as a body of historical evidence we could say the understanding from our perspective continues to evolve; but there's no world in which the history changes. Events, causality, arrow of time, etc.

[deleted]

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#77

Post by dralley »

creato wrote: post #43
KennyBlanken wrote: post #8

I stopped reading when the author categorized "prisoners of war being told to read confessions over Chinese propaganda radio" as "testifying publicly", almost at the start of the piece: > It was the propaganda version of an incendiary bomb. In 1952 U.S. Air Force and Marine flyers, shot down during the Korean War, testified publicly that they had been ordered to drop biological weapons (BW) on China and North Korea.…

I really don't know what to think of HN these days. You're absolutely right, and yet this post is at the bottom being downvoted. If the pilots knew, then a large number of support crew also would have known. But the only "testimony" we have is from captured PoWs, after how many decades of opportunities for deathbed confessions? Give me a break.

I ignore any kind of political discussion on HN after the dominant narrative on a couple of Ukraine threads was straight Russian propaganda and "Ukraine is doomed" etc etc.

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#78

Post by wrp »

retrac wrote: post #46
the-dude wrote: post #12

This reminds me of a video I stumbled across on YT : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMq-fApmzts This guy alleges that the US were 'kind' on Japan (only light tribunal?) after the war because they wanted to acquire the bio-warfare knowledge of the Japanese. And the Japanese tested bio-bombs.

This is a constantly changing area of history, so we're on shaky ground. The diaries of the chamberlain to Hirohito were only published a couple years ago, for example. They implicate the emperor deeply in war-time decisions in a way that contradicts the post-war narrative of a hapless well-meaning buffoon misled by his underlings. I suspect the real reason is close to the usually accepted story, though. Millions of…

> ...the post-war narrative of a hapless well-meaning buffoon...

It was clear from the start that the Emperor's involvement was being whitewashed. The Australian judge at the Tokyo trials, William Webb, argued publicly that Hirohito should be prosecuted, but it seems he could gather no political support. Since the trial, several books have covered this ground. This article by one such author gives a bit more context on the politics of the trials. (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-12/tokyo-trial-70th-anni...)

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#79

Post by RajT88 »

photochemsyn wrote: post #70
GartzenDeHaes wrote: post #47

Biological weapons are not used by the US due to practicality, not morality. 1. It's difficult to manufacture biological agents in large quantities. 2. It's hard to store biological agents for long periods of time, since living things tend to die. 3. It's hard to disperse biological agents over a large area. Spray tanks require flying at low altitude at slow speeds, or multiple deployments at high speeds. Munitions w…

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Big claim at the end there.

The FBI agents assigned to that investigation themselves admit they are not sure Bruce Ivins was their man. Nor if he was, that he acted alone.

Even if it was just him, no evidence of motivation was ever found.

Truly one of our nation's great unsolved mysteries.

Re: CIA, MKUltra, and the cover-up of U.S. germ warfare in the Korean war (2022)

#80

Post by orangepurple »

GartzenDeHaes wrote: post #47

Biological weapons are not used by the US due to practicality, not morality. 1. It's difficult to manufacture biological agents in large quantities. 2. It's hard to store biological agents for long periods of time, since living things tend to die. 3. It's hard to disperse biological agents over a large area. Spray tanks require flying at low altitude at slow speeds, or multiple deployments at high speeds. Munitions w…

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