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A digital payments revolution in India

economist.com

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Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#71

Post by cubefox »

ledgerdev wrote: post #39

Any possibility for some regional/local/state payment system in the US that's not a 3% tax on every purchase?

Someone else posted this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedNow

> FedNow is a service developed by the Federal Reserve for depository institutions in the United States. It will enable individuals and businesses to send and receive instant payments.[1][2][3][4] Banks will be able to build products on top of the FedNow platform.[5]

> FedNow is scheduled to begin formal certification of participants of the program in April 2023, with a formal launch planned for July 2023.[6][7] It will operate on a 24-hour, 365-days-a-year basis,[8] as opposed to the U.S. government's current system that is closed on weekends and holidays.[9][10] FedNow's transaction costs are expected to be about one-fifth the cost of existing payment solutions, which cost merchants an average of $0.23 per transaction.[5][clarification needed]

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#72

Post by umeshunni »

cubefox wrote: post #64
nish1500 wrote: post #6

When you pay a merchant $100 with your card they get about $97. When this $100 has exchanged hands 50 times only $15 remains. The bank owns the other $85. Cash is a hassle but it cuts out the middlemen. We need a unified payment system in western countries, but it's almost impossible given how much of a chokehold big banks have over our economy. Capitalism at its finest.

> We need a unified payment system in western countries, but it's almost impossible given how much of a chokehold big banks have over our economy. Credit card companies charge even more than banks.

Most of the interchange goes to banks.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#73

Post by colesantiago »

signal11 wrote: post #61
1024core wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> UPI has no dispute resolution (as of now). And cash does??

If UPI competed with cash, that’d be sort of fine. The problem is that UPI enthusiasts think it’s a perfect replacement for cards. It’s not. Even with cash, because you need physical presence, you can inspect the goods. Under many UPI scenarios, that doesn’t happen. So a “and cash does?” comment sounds like a clever zinger, but in reality cash and UPI have different threat models. Equally, UPI is a useful alternative…

You can use UPI offline:

https://www.gadgetsnow.com/how-to/how-to-pay-online-using-up...

This is what I mean with so many misconceptions, falsehoods and just outright conspiracy theories, from people who have probably never used UPI.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#74

Post by cubefox »

supriyo-biswas wrote: post #25
mkrishnan wrote: post #5

[flagged]

It's regrettable and astounding at the same time that a factual comment is getting downvoted. UPI should absolutely introduce a facility to chargeback a transaction, which is why I always prefer to use my credit card, if possible.

A credit card costs more in the long run, otherwise credit card companies wouldn't be profitable.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#76

Post by signal11 »

1024core wrote: post #53
colesantiago wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad to see it. It makes me sad that there are so many misconceptions about UPI that people are willing to resort to falsehoods (such as CBDCs and privacy) and it shows that most criticisms are from people that haven't used it in the real world.

[flagged]

The UK’s Faster Payments system predates UPI. Free, near-instant payments round the clock. IMPS, the tech that powers UPI, came around 2 years later.

But UPI as a layer on top of IMPS is great, especially the idea of providing an easy you@bank identifier. By contrast Faster Payments is like 102030-12345678. And being designed post iPhone was actually a blessing because it allowed UPI to have a mobile-first deployment strategy.

But UPI also makes a virtue out of necessity: the reality that cards and a protected e-payment mechanism are difficult to organise, especially for India’s less-well off.

This then turns into nationalistic chest thumping about “jealous foreigners”, while completely ignoring real issues around customer protection and scenarios that UPI doesn’t enable.

To be clear: I wish UPI well. I also want to see less opportunities for scammers in UPI and for people to be able to use UPI with confidence knowing they will be easily refunded if things go wrong.

It’s honestly tiresome to have reasoned conversations with nationalistic chest thumpers.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#78

Post by twoclicksnorth »

new2yc wrote: post #56

[flagged]

> The Indian Govt. has already shown their intentions in their parliament.

Running Payment infrastructure have a cost for banks. somebody has to pay for it though taxes or fees.

> RBI has became a puppet of it (shown by their actions time and time). They tried getting judiciary (SC) but couldn't get it this time.

RBI is central bank. Its a statutory institution that is answerable to Elected Govt what are you expecting ? Its the Supreme court regularly oversteps its limits and plays govt.

> The big UPI mandates corps. (PhonePe, Paytm, and GPay), in India, have started to put transxn fees on UPI transactions.

Only for transactions greater than 2000 and that too very low. This wouldn't affect poor at all.

> Just like cryptocurrencies (no regulations whatsoever but flat 30% on all the profits), the govt. will find a way to get the juice out of UPI sooner or later. All thanks to that dumb finance minister.

Cryptocurrencies are a grift and Govt is right to ban it. Say what you will of the Govt about stupid religious policies and idiotic and pompous schemes and outright undemocratic policing situation but so far gov has done a good job as far as fiscal health and Currency stability are concerned.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#80

Post by signal11 »

colesantiago wrote: post #73
signal11 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If UPI competed with cash, that’d be sort of fine. The problem is that UPI enthusiasts think it’s a perfect replacement for cards. It’s not. Even with cash, because you need physical presence, you can inspect the goods. Under many UPI scenarios, that doesn’t happen. So a “and cash does?” comment sounds like a clever zinger, but in reality cash and UPI have different threat models. Equally, UPI is a useful alternative…

You can use UPI offline: https://www.gadgetsnow.com/how-to/how-to-pay-online-using-up... This is what I mean with so many misconceptions, falsehoods and just outright conspiracy theories, from people who have probably never used UPI.

> you can use UPI offline

Yes, UPI Lite (local offline wallet) has a transaction limit of INR 200. Yes, 200. With a limit of 4000 per day and the Lite wallet can hold 2000 at any one time.

Good luck doing anything serious with that. Also, good luck reloading the wallet when the internet is blocked.

Note: the context of this thread was a UPI vs Cash comparison. Cash is king when the internet isn’t available. UPI Lite notwithstanding.

And for those unfamiliar with Indian context: internet shutdowns happen at the drop of an hat, at a city or sometimes state/part of a state level. For days or longer. In one notorious instance, for multiple months. There’s little oversight, any local authority can make it happen, with little recourse by the public.

They are a massive failure of local governance in India. And getting defensive about it won’t help you in the long run, if you live in India. Sooner or later, you’ll be affected too.

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