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Agrivoltaics: A Sustainable Synergy Between Agriculture and Solar Energy

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Re: Agrivoltaics: A Sustainable Synergy Between Agriculture and Solar Energy

#71

Post by hosh »

agumonkey wrote: post #59
hosh wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a result of occupying a certain canopy layer. Any other plant that occupies that canopy layer can do the same.

But 1) they don't generate electricity 2) they might require care to avoid spreading or attracting bugs (i'm speculating) The idea to benefit from an energy source at the ecological layer is the main idea IMO.

Generating electricity is a yield to humans. Other plants have other yields.

In an ecosystem, something spreading and growing is a feature, not a bug. It means that, as a living system, it self-heals and regenerates. This is better than just being sustainable. A solar panel neither self-heals or regenerate. It in fact, degenerates —- the cells wear out over time, yielding less electricity year over year, and will require replacement at some point. Without human intervention, it will eventually stop functioning.

My question still remains unanswered: what does a solar panel contribute to the ecosystem itself, that is not a result occupying a canopy layer or a yield for humans?

Re: Agrivoltaics: A Sustainable Synergy Between Agriculture and Solar Energy

#72

Post by hosh »

Schroedingersat wrote: post #64
hosh wrote: post #34

This is a specific application of a broader design pattern found in the permaculture world: planting combinations of plants at different canopy layers, ecological functions, and yields. The solar panels would be taking the place of an understory or shrub canopy layer, while there are herbaceous, ground cover, and root zone layers you can work with. While solar panels have an yield useful for humans, it would be even…

The shade can be controlled with tracking panels. Full shade at noon when photosynthesis stops due to heat to preserve water, less at other times. The PV can also perform a nitrogen fixing role via electrolysis and ammonia production. On a broader scale it can lead to the land being habitable at all by driving a coal or gas generator out of business. Not better, but more likely to be deployed.

In order for the panels to function as a nitrogen fixer, you’d not only have to add that functionality to the panel, you also reduce the yield in order to power it.

Are people willing to do that? Are there better ways to contribute?

When designing plant guilds in this way, these are the common ecological functions plants contribute to:

- nitrogen fixer

- deep-tap root dynamic accumulator (roots bring up nutrients below most other plant’s root zones and makes it bioavailable at the surface)

- pollinator attractor (usually flowers)

- aromatic confusers (part of integrated pest management strategies)

- sentinels (helps control plants that spread, or protect fragile plants from animals)

- animal and insect habitats

Then there are keystone species that have so many contributions, the local ecology would fall apart without it. An example is a baynan, from the fig family. These are actually a parasite that takes over a host tree with invasive roots, but they are also keystone species that contributes so much that no one wants to get rid of them.

In contrast, I don’t think anyone designs solar panels like this. So it yields something with minimal participation in the ecosystem. Humans want it for the electricity, but it may as well be an invasive species that just extracts resources without really giving anything back.

Re: Agrivoltaics: A Sustainable Synergy Between Agriculture and Solar Energy

#73

Post by newsclues »

worldsayshi wrote: post #12
newsclues wrote: post #6

Do we have electric tractors? Are they viable given that weight is a serious issue for machinery on fields? Having lived on a rural farm, with solar panels on the barn, if you can use the harvested power on the farm, great, but once you start trying to distribute it, the problems start to show up because rural infrastructure isn't good, and there isn't enough demand in the local grid.

> infrastructure isn't good I've heard this enough times that I might assume this is the bottle neck of a green transition of our electrical generation. What is being done about this? Is it an area where innovation or disruption can still happen? Are there any interesting things on the horizon for taking big leaps on fixing the electricity infrastructure? As a Fullstack/Cloud/Data engineer where could you put your fe…

Decentralized power isn't what the power companies want.

The innovations aren't being pursued because of economics and greed.

Re: Agrivoltaics: A Sustainable Synergy Between Agriculture and Solar Energy

#74

Post by worldsayshi »

newsclues wrote: post #73
worldsayshi wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> infrastructure isn't good I've heard this enough times that I might assume this is the bottle neck of a green transition of our electrical generation. What is being done about this? Is it an area where innovation or disruption can still happen? Are there any interesting things on the horizon for taking big leaps on fixing the electricity infrastructure? As a Fullstack/Cloud/Data engineer where could you put your fe…

Decentralized power isn't what the power companies want. The innovations aren't being pursued because of economics and greed.

So let's decentralise (human) power (over the grid)? But how?

Re: Agrivoltaics: A Sustainable Synergy Between Agriculture and Solar Energy

#75

Post by Valgrim »

tuatoru wrote: post #61
Valgrim wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might check your math here buddy. Sure a combine (which is called that because it does three jobs all at once, reaping, threshing and winnowing) may cost 100$/hr over it's useful lifespan, but it replaces much more than one person (more like 150-300 people), especially when you consider that harvesting is extremely time-sensitive, sometimes in a matter of hours... Edit: after some research and calculations, my es…

Side note: textbooks like to talk about the "amazing" productivity growth in manufacturing, but that's only been something like 6 to 20 times, not 350 - 700 times. The real story of productivity growth is in agriculture, and it's still going on, with autonomous vehicles and robotics. An amazing world we live in, where the process of growing food was capable of such incredible labor efficiency gains. Imagine if medici…

Sorry if I seemed to imply a productivity gain of 350-700 times. This is a very rough estimate for only the tasks accomplished by a combined harvester, which happens in a very narrow timeline in the season. I was certainly not talking about the overall productivity of the farms.

Re: Agrivoltaics: A Sustainable Synergy Between Agriculture and Solar Energy

#76

Post by agumonkey »

hosh wrote: post #71
agumonkey wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But 1) they don't generate electricity 2) they might require care to avoid spreading or attracting bugs (i'm speculating) The idea to benefit from an energy source at the ecological layer is the main idea IMO.

Generating electricity is a yield to humans. Other plants have other yields. In an ecosystem, something spreading and growing is a feature, not a bug. It means that, as a living system, it self-heals and regenerates. This is better than just being sustainable. A solar panel neither self-heals or regenerate. It in fact, degenerates —- the cells wear out over time, yielding less electricity year over year, and will req…

Your viewpoint, as good as it is, is not appropriate here imo. It's a human need being discussed, not an ecosystem one. If you breed the best ecosystem the people will not get tangible benefits, maybe some increase in soil quality, plants resistance, nutrients but is it enough to improve their production and finances ?

At least that's how I see it with my limited information.

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