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Has Apple sounded the last POST?

eclecticlight.co

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Re: Has Apple sounded the last POST?

#71
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This “encouraging learned helplessness” you talk about is in fact the opposite. > and when they break they should be taken to professionals to fix That's precisely "learned helplessness". You can't do anything, take it to the professionals, is the lesson you're supposed to learn. Example of cars is apt. The owners manual of a car these days doesn't tell you anything useful, anything that needs works is just "take i…

The analogy is apt, yes, and the reasons are the same. Cars decades ago were simple physical systems. I could take apart my 1980 Mercedes with one box worth of tools. A modern Mercedes can’t even be tuned without special software. Even more modern cars — EVs — are basically laptops with wheels. The old world is gone, and we’re never going back to it. It’s not learned helplessness for me to realize that I can’t debug…

> A modern Mercedes can’t even be tuned without special software.

And these trends are a tragedy, for all kinds of products not just computers and cars.

Sure, most people didn't care to repair their widget even in the 70s they just took it an applicable professional. Which is fine. But some people wanted for various reasons. Some of these people got so interested that it became their career and went on to great developments. Nearly every engineer can tell stories of tinkering with some products as a kid and it drove their career.

A lot of that is lost when products are un-tinkerable. Think of the generations growing up today for whom a computer is a hermetically sealed device from apple where they can't do anything but consume, tightly within the guardrails apple enforces. That's not bringing up a generation of computer tinkerers.

Re: Has Apple sounded the last POST?

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple has always chosen form over function Having used an M1 MacBook Pro and iPad Pro I can't say I agree with you on this. Apple silicon MacBook Pro's are incredible - powerful, long battery life, fan-less most of the time, they are the breath of fresh air and kick in the butt the laptop/pc industry out of the stale state it was in. The iPad Pro is an impressive device for digital art and other creative applicatio…

the m1 macbook pro with the touch bar and usbc only, or the m1 macbook pro where apple went from that to a refresh of the 2012-15 design as a capitulation to years of complaints about form-over-function?

MacBook M1 Pro Max 2021

Re: Has Apple sounded the last POST?

#73
post #54
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This “encouraging learned helplessness” you talk about is in fact the opposite. > and when they break they should be taken to professionals to fix That's precisely "learned helplessness". You can't do anything, take it to the professionals, is the lesson you're supposed to learn. Example of cars is apt. The owners manual of a car these days doesn't tell you anything useful, anything that needs works is just "take i…

>That's precisely "learned helplessness". You can't do anything, take it to the professionals, is the lesson you're supposed to learn. Pretend you're a common man, you're Joe Schmoe: Is it worth your while to learn, know, and care about all the intricacies of how a computer (and specifically a Mac) boots? And even if you do, is it worth your while to learn, know, care, and have on hand the means necessary to fix a co…

The problem isn't that most people don't care to learn, it's that platforms become more and more locked down to the point that people can't learn. Or even if they can, the device is so "sealed" that they can't dive in even if they knew how.

A big part of the reason I got into computers and software development was because I wanted to know how things worked. And I could do that: I could dig into things, write simple programs, take things apart, put them together, all that. Young minds these days have fewer opportunities to satisfy any curiosity they may have about these sorts of things.

Re: Has Apple sounded the last POST?

#74

Apple has always chosen form over function, and this isn't any exception; the aesthetics of a "clean" boot process is clearly more important to them than being able to easily figure out what's happening, and I suspect at least part of the reason for this opaqueness is to encourage learned helplessness and visits to the Apple Store (which may result in upselling or otherwise exchange of $$$) when something doesn't wor…

I'm the opposite. I see all that junk on a PC booting and I think to myself, well, what happens if one of those tests fail? I'm gonna reboot. And if it keeps failing, I'll take it to a shop. If I take a Mac to the Apple store, they will run their in-house diagnostics and tell me what's wrong. If I take a PC to the PC store, they will run their own diagnostics and tell me what's wrong. So what benefit does this messy…

If my POST fails, and the machine actually surfaces status information during the tests, I'll try to fix it.

It's absolutely fine that you don't want to go through that, and just want a professional to fix things. But I'm sick of manufacturers (like Apple) taking options away from me. I don't want a hermetically sealed appliance where I can't replace the RAM or SSD or whatever when something goes wrong or I want to upgrade.

Re: Has Apple sounded the last POST?

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tend not to upsell you much at the Apple Store… Last time one of my MacBooks was well and truly stuffed, they ended up eventually just giving me a new laptop that was four years newer (it was the Nvidia graphics chip fault in the 2011 MacBook Pro, before the official repair program started. They tried replacing the logic board twice but when the second one failed they just swapped the laptop for a brand new 2015…

Official apple support vastly differs depending on the country, so in terms of service US support seems to vastly more friendly and lenient than most other countries.

This was in Australia.
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