Add ProtonVPN to the list too. They have auto renew as the default and there is no cancel option anywhere. And if you try to remove the payment method it does not allow you to do so as your auto renewal is still active. The only way to cancel auto renew is to write an email to support.
How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed
71–80 of 191 posts
Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed
#72May the 4th be with you in avoiding the dark side.
Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed
#73I heard someone say a while back that “cancelled customers are just potential future customers”. Anyone that’s had an easy cancellation process will remember that flexibility if they ever need that service again. No idea why no large subscription service seems to understand that. Make me go thru annoying hoops and you’ve lost me for good!
I mean, just thinking through it logically, it _must_ be harder getting someone to sign back up for a service they quit right? I mean, they tried it and then they left it because ostensibly they didn’t think it provided value. How does that equation change?
Compared to a random person, no, it shouldn't.
They know about you, understand your service, and clearly value it within the error margin your publicity material implies.
People's value evaluation change all the time, somebody that values it just a bit too little to subscribe has large odds of eventually changing into just enough to subscribe.
Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed
#74Add ProtonVPN to the list too. They have auto renew as the default and there is no cancel option anywhere. And if you try to remove the payment method it does not allow you to do so as your auto renewal is still active. The only way to cancel auto renew is to write an email to support.
I've migrated my email services to them so I plan to be there a while, but that is unfortunate to hear.
Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed
#75Another way to forcefully cancel a subscription is simply registering with a card to which you can manually add or recharge credit, the day that you do not put money in it (or remove from it), the subscription should be automatically cancelled as they can't debit that amount from you (yeah, it doesn't work if you're subscribed to several services. Or maybe it could if you meticulously add/remove credit the exact days…
How is this legal? This always seemed like a weird "hack" to me. Just because your payment method does not work anymore, this does not cancel your buying contract. If they wanted to, couldn't they just sue you?
You’re exactly correct. The payment obligation still exists through the contract for service; you’ve just disabled the means to automatically settle that debt. So the debt accumulates. Sometimes a company writes it off as bad debt and terminates it for non-payment, other times they sell it to a collections agency and ding your credit (e.g. gyms).
Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed
#76You know which services I don't have problems cancelling? Ones I subscribe to via Apple's in-app payments. I get that it sucks to have Apple scrape a percentage of my payments for themselves, but if you're a company I don't fully trust and/or want to have total control over my subscription without a bunch of hassle, Apple's IAPs are the way to go. Mostly this is great with the big streaming services. Want Disney+ or…
100% this. Going even further I always get emails when yearly subscriptions are charging in a few days and those emails even include how to cancel the subscription if I no longer wish to use it. I know people love to complain about the App Store, and there are some valid complaints. But companies being forced to use this mechanism for subscriptions is a huge benefit for consumers. Also frankly, it's a huge benefit fo…
Apple and Google now only take 15% from mobile app developers with annual revenue under $1 million from the App Store. It means a lot to people like me since they also host and handle payment processing for a net 30-45 contract.
Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed
#77Another way to forcefully cancel a subscription is simply registering with a card to which you can manually add or recharge credit, the day that you do not put money in it (or remove from it), the subscription should be automatically cancelled as they can't debit that amount from you (yeah, it doesn't work if you're subscribed to several services. Or maybe it could if you meticulously add/remove credit the exact days…
How is this legal? This always seemed like a weird "hack" to me. Just because your payment method does not work anymore, this does not cancel your buying contract. If they wanted to, couldn't they just sue you?
Just cancelling the payment without any contact isn't legal, but if the company makes it hard for you to cancel that's already fraud and after that the contract is normally moot. (IANAL, by the way, and yes, there are enough obvious details being handwaved here that it doesn't matter anyway.)
But a company suing you to get monthly payments for future monthly services raises so many red flags that I can't imagine anybody even accepting getting involved with it.
Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is this legal? This always seemed like a weird "hack" to me. Just because your payment method does not work anymore, this does not cancel your buying contract. If they wanted to, couldn't they just sue you?
You’re exactly correct. The payment obligation still exists through the contract for service; you’ve just disabled the means to automatically settle that debt. So the debt accumulates. Sometimes a company writes it off as bad debt and terminates it for non-payment, other times they sell it to a collections agency and ding your credit (e.g. gyms).
Oh wow... If that's not another dark pattern, hell I don't know how to call it. So no company out there would automatically cancel your contract if they aren't able to debit from you? How's that even possible? If I understood correctly the debt will increase indefinitely even let's say after two failed attempts to charge from you? Why is not that illegal?
Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
I typically add calendar reminders the moment I find myself signing up for something. Current reminders: Cancel Peacock by n-Date; Don't renew Tidal by foo; Downgrade YouTube premium on n;
Dear Lord, Youtube. Annoying Ad plays Saaay, we can make those ads go away, for just a little money. It's like paying the mob to make sure nothing happens to your store (by the mob)
I've used uBlockOrigin in the past for YouTube ads, and it works well on a laptop.
What's nice about Premium, if you use it on an iPad, is it lets you download videos, and let's you also play them in the background, etc. I did this a lot for listening to Sleep casts and such....
I'm at a point, though, where I only want to consume YouTube content from a computer, when I'm trying to solve a problem, and not passively consume it like I was for awhile.
Also, so much of the content I have has "built in" ads, and it's annoying enough that it degrades from the content for me.
Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed
#80Thanks, this reminded me to cancel a subscription to service I only meant to sign up for for one month. Accidentally ended up 3 months. I had to click through 6 different screens to cancel.