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Vercel Service Markup

service-markup.vercel.app

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Re: Vercel Service Markup

#71

Post by pjmlp »

msy wrote: post #24

Vercel raised $300m+ at the top of the market and paid over the odds to hire a ton of JS ecosystem luminaries. Those investors are going want to see a return, not just an eyewatering wage bill. Anyone building on top of their ecosystem is going to get fleeced, they have no other route to possibly justifing their valuation or ever providing a passable return on that capital. Everyone else should be preparing their pla…

The problem are SaaS headless platforms that are now making Vercel/NextJS their main SDK tooling for frontend code, where everyone that decides to use another stack is faced with having to implement by themselves what those SDKs offer out of the box in Vercel/NextJS integration.

Re: Vercel Service Markup

#72

Post by kiwicopple »

nikita wrote: post #58
langsoul-com wrote: post #47

How does Neon compare with planetscale for free dB hosting? I know fly also has free dB's, but it really isn't a managed dB service.

Neon CEO here. Much much better :) On a serious note, Neon is Postgres and Planetscale is MySQL. Neon has 100% compat with Postgres and Planetscale supports most but not all MySQL. Neon has unlimited storage a single node compute. Planetscale is scale out architecture on top of Vitess. Neon scales to 0 and more cost effective b/c the architecture.

hey nikita, just checking the 100% postgres compatibility.

From what I understand there isn't any logical replication: https://community.neon.tech/t/plans-for-logical-replication/...

This prevents makes it incompatible with our Realtime server and a few other CDC tools like Debezium

(mentioned previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33912348)

Re: Vercel Service Markup

#73

Post by krono »

radicalriddler wrote: post #23

This is why I'm bear-ish on Next.JS as a framework. Vercel has some super cool features for Next.Js that are easy to integrate into your app, but is that de-incentivizing Next.JS to implement them in an open way? Vercel is a hyper for-profit and closed platform, is that blocking innovation on Next.JS as an "open-source" framework?

Right around the time when Vercel introduced their performance analytics upsell service, they deleted the NextJS documentation on "web vitals" gathering - same thing, but without the service.

Then again when they introduced their new Image component for the longest time it would by default use Vercel's paid image optimisation services, eventually it could be disabled but only with some weird and poorly/confusingly documented custom configuration entry.

There are more instances of similar such questionable actions by the NextJS maintainers. I'd rather have seen them just be open about what drove them to do these things.

Re: Vercel Service Markup

#74

Post by ElFitz »

jrudolph wrote: post #38

The appeal of a no-ops workflow for basic frontend apps is there. We’ve got a bunch of static docs sites built with vuepress and docusaurus that are a great fit for this. Not that we can’t whip up a CDN with terraform and a CI/CD pipeline with preview environments, but my team would rather spend its energy on our core product. However we’ve been badly burned by vercel, netlify and render.com switching their pricing m…

> At this point I’m starting to wonder why it isn’t more popular.

The last time I tried it, most of the "automagic" quickly turned into "do everything by hand if you don’t want to get burned, and oh, we say we handle this use case but, as obliquely mentioned in passing, you really shouldn’t use it. Also, we don’t see the point in having our CLI tool spit anything more than the most generic errors.

What? What do you mean access control? What is that?"

I ended up on Firebase.

And, on my current project, found a single-table DynamoDB to be more reliable and predictable.

But perhaps things have improved since then?

Re: Vercel Service Markup

#75

Post by ElFitz »

tobase wrote: post #48
jrudolph wrote: post #38

The appeal of a no-ops workflow for basic frontend apps is there. We’ve got a bunch of static docs sites built with vuepress and docusaurus that are a great fit for this. Not that we can’t whip up a CDN with terraform and a CI/CD pipeline with preview environments, but my team would rather spend its energy on our core product. However we’ve been badly burned by vercel, netlify and render.com switching their pricing m…

It’s simple. It’s not more popular because of bad UX. I would not be surprised if the best customer that Vercel chasing is also a customer that can add these costs to their customer or take a hit on the margin.

Bad UX. Mediocre DX. Average documentation. Unreliable tools.

Re: Vercel Service Markup

#76

Post by nikita »

kiwicopple wrote: post #72
nikita wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neon CEO here. Much much better :) On a serious note, Neon is Postgres and Planetscale is MySQL. Neon has 100% compat with Postgres and Planetscale supports most but not all MySQL. Neon has unlimited storage a single node compute. Planetscale is scale out architecture on top of Vitess. Neon scales to 0 and more cost effective b/c the architecture.

hey nikita, just checking the 100% postgres compatibility. From what I understand there isn't any logical replication: https://community.neon.tech/t/plans-for-logical-replication/... This prevents makes it incompatible with our Realtime server and a few other CDC tools like Debezium (mentioned previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33912348 )

Agree on the callout. This one we are going to enable soon so it's fixable. So the correction is that it's architecturally possible, but temporarily disabled. Hope we will be able to run Supabase on it soon!

Also there are some storage plugins that won't work b/c we take over Postgres low level storage.

Re: Vercel Service Markup

#78

Post by brundolf »

jrudolph wrote: post #63
brundolf wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been wondering what the limits of the user-based pricing actually are If it's just the number of people who can go in the UI and press the button (when it automatically gets deployed from git anyway), or change env secrets, can't you just have a single admin account and call it "one user"? That could be a single actual person (how often do you change those things?) or could even be a single account shared by the…

On netlify iirc pricing was for every git committer that was allowed to trigger a deploy. Render.com was more lenient in a model like you describe but still we have different people manage different apps and it adds up.

Ouch. By git committer sounds brutal

Re: Vercel Service Markup

#79

Post by harshitgangal »

nikita wrote: post #76
kiwicopple wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hey nikita, just checking the 100% postgres compatibility. From what I understand there isn't any logical replication: https://community.neon.tech/t/plans-for-logical-replication/... This prevents makes it incompatible with our Realtime server and a few other CDC tools like Debezium (mentioned previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33912348 )

Agree on the callout. This one we are going to enable soon so it's fixable. So the correction is that it's architecturally possible, but temporarily disabled. Hope we will be able to run Supabase on it soon! Also there are some storage plugins that won't work b/c we take over Postgres low level storage.

Likewise in Vitess. It is architecturally possible to add 100% compatibility :)

Re: Vercel Service Markup

#80

Post by 015a »

paxys wrote: post #15
orliesaurus wrote: post #12

Serious question: do big companies actually use Vercel? I never worked at a big/very big company but I don't see how these prices would scale for them

Next.js is incredibly popular in the industry. Some of the largest companies out there use it. Whether they host on Vercel or not I can't say, but I'm sure that number isn't zero. Of course we are talking more about auxiliary stuff like landing pages, marketing sites, blogs and documentation, not hosting for their core business.

I know of five or six companies using Next; none of them use Vercel. I tend to think that their moat against “write a five line dockerfile” just isn’t all that large. I use Vercel for my personal site; I’m familiar with the product suite; I genuinely don’t know why anyone would pay the markup beyond not knowing better.

The auto branch deployments on PRs is pretty cool.

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