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Bitcoin physical bearer instrument using NFC JavaCards

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Re: Bitcoin physical bearer instrument using NFC JavaCards

#71

Post by big_youth »

ursuscamp wrote: post #62
big_youth wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin mining benefiting the energy grid is an absurd statement. I live in Texas and the bitcoin mines are messing up our grid by making energy more expensive during heatwaves and freezes and when shutdown we have to pay them! https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/15/crypto-energy-texas-... https://www.govtech.com/computing/bitcoin-mining-threatens-t... https://www.utilitydive.com/news/warren-bitcoin-texas-power-...…

Bitcoin miners don't compete for the same energy as residential and most industrial uses. Mining isn't profitable unless energy is a fraction of the price that typical consumers pay. The effect is that Bitcoin miners act as energy buyers of last resort. In other words, they buy wasted energy. Having a buyer of last resort is good for energy grids (or any product), not bad for them. It incentivizes grid build out. Ins…

Let me get this right, your argument is that miners are better than manufacturing or smelting? So that's how mining is beneficial to the energy grid. You bitcoin clowns are really on something.

Did you read a single article. Bitcoin miners ARE raising prices for Texas citizens.

Not to mention the noise issues: https://www.wsj.com/articles/bitcoin-mining-noise-drives-nei...

I gave up caring about bitcoin around 2014 after growing out of libertarian brain rot. And sold my last 5btc in 2021 after the superbowl commercial gave me the feeling the jig was up and the last suckers were in. The sooner you come to this realization the soon you can dedicate your time better uses. Good luck.

Re: Bitcoin physical bearer instrument using NFC JavaCards

#72

Post by big_youth »

brianf0 wrote: post #20
lobstrosity420 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it’s the same thing as government issued currency the moment you put it in paper. A corollary is that digital dollars on your banking app is just like crypto.

Not the same, BTC can't be created / devalued at will.

The devs can change anything, it's just software. As long as miners, which are extremely centralized, agree it's the new chain.

I was a part of the bitcointalk forums in 2010 when the dev team created a soft fork that modified the blockchain to change consensus rules. THink about it, devs changed the consensus mechanism, that goes against everything bitcoin is supposed to be. They can do it again

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident

Re: Bitcoin physical bearer instrument using NFC JavaCards

#73

Post by Yizahi »

brianf0 wrote: post #5
CrampusDestrus wrote: post #2

We could print pieces of folded paper containing wallets with a standard amount of satoshi and.... wooops, we just invented cash again

This is reductive. It may bear some resemblance to cash but it's more like a voucher, and the actual value is transferred on an immutable ledger. Wish Hacker News wasn't so curmudgeonly about crypto and actually tried to imagine the multitude of ways it would improve society if adopted.

Which society it would improve? No extradition offshores, with Giancarlo, Czao, Paolo, Machinski, Sun, Bankrun-Fraud and many others? Maybe so. The problem is that I belong to a different society.

Re: Bitcoin physical bearer instrument using NFC JavaCards

#74

Post by mjburgess »

overthrow wrote: post #53
eimrine wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I downvoted because you are telling too loud worlds: you claim to read all the books, investigated all its authors, realized all of them has some crooked interest and especially because you fail to see any problem solved. You are such a liar.

The fun part about such bombastic claims is they can be disproven with just one counterexample. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/us-government-enlists-usdc-f... > US Government Enlists USDC for ‘Global Foreign Policy Objective’ in Venezuela: Circle CEO Even the US government is willing to admit there are situations where crypto is the best option available.

Indeed -- all that's required is a single example.

> USD Coin (USDC) is a digital stablecoin pegged to the United States dollar.

Nothing is denominated in USDC, it isnt a currency (indeed, no cryptocurrency is a currency, since none are a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_of_account ).

The USD is the currency here.

So the mechanism here is that people in Venezuela have a route to obtaining USD without having to use the banking system because they can sell their USDC electronically.

What in this process requires (or even benefits from) blockchain exactly, or cryptocurrency?

Venezuela already has extensive digital payment systems, and there's lots of ways of getting money directly to people today. This USDC project was just a lobbied-for newspaper story.

The story above, as all of them, is a result of intense lobbying by shysters who use these throwaway-projects to pump the value of their assets. Stories like this come out all the time, usually within 5 years there's an embarrassing write up of all those involved.

I have no doubt a huge amount of money was wasted using the UDSC "option", enriching many of those involved. Articles like the above do not tell you about the alternatives, they're written to hype crypto.

This is what i mean about the "ideas market" in crypto being as fake as the prices market: it's all manipulated. All these stories are written and released by people profoundly invested in lying to you.

Re: Bitcoin physical bearer instrument using NFC JavaCards

#75

Post by tastyfreeze »

kube-system wrote: post #40
tastyfreeze wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the same. A paper wallet has actual value like a metal coin. Now if the paper wallet could not be redeemed for sats you have a pretty piece of paper like cash.

Coins of modern currencies have fiat values far beyond their base metals.

Kinda. Its a moving target as metal value and dollar value change. Metal content of coins is changed occasionally to more closely match the face value. For example, solid copper pennies that are still in circulation have a melt value worth more than one cent.

My comment didn't state that melt value equals face value. Just that a metal coin has intrinsic value.

Re: Bitcoin physical bearer instrument using NFC JavaCards

#76

Post by kube-system »

tastyfreeze wrote: post #75
kube-system wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coins of modern currencies have fiat values far beyond their base metals.

Kinda. Its a moving target as metal value and dollar value change. Metal content of coins is changed occasionally to more closely match the face value. For example, solid copper pennies that are still in circulation have a melt value worth more than one cent. My comment didn't state that melt value equals face value. Just that a metal coin has intrinsic value.

Paper also has intrinsic value.

Fiat coins materials aren't changed in value to match their face value. They're changed to lower production cost and achieve a particular quality of production.

Re: Bitcoin physical bearer instrument using NFC JavaCards

#77

Post by jfengel »

pookha wrote: post #55
dragonwriter wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wish Hacker News wasn’t so curmudgeonly about crypto and actually tried to imagine the multitude of ways it would improve society if adopted. Is it curmudgeonly to be uninterested in searching for problems for an overhyped solution than is sadly lacking in them? Well, fine, then I’m happy to be a curmudgeon.

in my mind centralized banking that can turn off your finances for societal reasons (Jinping style) and fiat-currency-backed-by-drone strike are problems that need some kind of solution. Bitcoin has persisted through multiple dips and seems to be a competitor (solution).

These problems don't seem to bother the vast majority of people. There are a few use cases where they can make a genuine difference, but they're swamped by the number of people using it to circumvent a valid and (reasonably) ethical law.

As for violence, that's literally one definition of government: a monopoly on the legitimate use of force. It's not just currency that derives its value from that. It includes your own physical safety and all of the coordination that allows a densely-packed society to function.

If you wish to reconsider that, you'll have to go further back than trivia like currency. You'll have to reinvent everything about the social contract that makes government work. Otherwise you're just layering a band-aid on top of a much more significant basis of your daily life.

Re: Bitcoin physical bearer instrument using NFC JavaCards

#78

Post by tastyfreeze »

tsukikage wrote: post #43
tastyfreeze wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the same. A paper wallet has actual value like a metal coin. Now if the paper wallet could not be redeemed for sats you have a pretty piece of paper like cash.

> as actual value like a metal coin ...you mean, the way you can melt a coin down for its metal value? You can use the paper for its value as... paper? I'm not convinced "you can wipe your butt with it" makes a good case for its value, tbh

A paper wallet is redeemable for bitcoin. More accurately, it provides access to the bitcoin on chain. Ultimately, paper wallets as money increases the risk of bitcoins being lost forever if the paper is lost or destroyed before the bitcoin it contains are moved.

Re: Bitcoin physical bearer instrument using NFC JavaCards

#79

Post by overthrow »

mjburgess wrote: post #74
overthrow wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fun part about such bombastic claims is they can be disproven with just one counterexample. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/us-government-enlists-usdc-f... > US Government Enlists USDC for ‘Global Foreign Policy Objective’ in Venezuela: Circle CEO Even the US government is willing to admit there are situations where crypto is the best option available.

Indeed -- all that's required is a single example. > USD Coin (USDC) is a digital stablecoin pegged to the United States dollar. Nothing is denominated in USDC, it isnt a currency (indeed, no cryptocurrency is a currency, since none are a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_of_account ). The USD is the currency here. So the mechanism here is that people in Venezuela have a route to obtaining USD without having to use…

> Venezuela already has extensive digital payment systems

Sure, but those systems had been sabotaged by a politican/dictator named Nicolás Maduro who rejected the results of an election.

> What in this process requires (or even benefits from) blockchain exactly, or cryptocurrency?

A decentralized payments system is one that cannot be shut down by Nicolás Maduro.

Do you think the Venezuelan crisis was just a big conspiracy theory?

Re: Bitcoin physical bearer instrument using NFC JavaCards

#80

Post by Yizahi »

pookha wrote: post #55
dragonwriter wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wish Hacker News wasn’t so curmudgeonly about crypto and actually tried to imagine the multitude of ways it would improve society if adopted. Is it curmudgeonly to be uninterested in searching for problems for an overhyped solution than is sadly lacking in them? Well, fine, then I’m happy to be a curmudgeon.

in my mind centralized banking that can turn off your finances for societal reasons (Jinping style) and fiat-currency-backed-by-drone strike are problems that need some kind of solution. Bitcoin has persisted through multiple dips and seems to be a competitor (solution).

It's not a competitor because it can't scale at all and is a gigantic space heater too (which would be a point of discussion if the advertised functionality worked at least). So the guys governing bittoken network invented a lightning system. Which at close inspection is a highly centralised system, separate from the original bittoken network, and working exactly as current banks. People deposit btc in it, then bank (node) issues you some derivative IOUs which which you trade with others, then transactions are settled between banks (nodes) only.

Basically tokenbros are reinventing banks, only with zero oversight and governed from offshores. Amazing alternative I must say. /s

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