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Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

lowtechmagazine.com

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Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#71

Post by harha »

derbOac wrote: post #67
harha wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you don’t need disk brakes until you do when the car pops up in front of you. There’s a bunch of people who would gain more from losing weight than whatever the marketing department of the bike company tells them, but it’s great to have this choice. I’m having just as much fun cycling as I do reading up on the tech and tinkering with my bikes, that’s time I’m not spending on being interested in cars.

I'm not going to vilify disc brakes because it's good to have choices and disc brakes are a good option. However, I've always had this hunch that if you were going to actually quantify the percent of times in which the stopping time difference between a rim brake and disc brake actually was the deciding factor in serious cycling accidents, my guess is it's very very very low. That is, my guess is the car appears so s…

Oh yeah fully agree some things are just silly and not having the option for rim brakes isn’t good either, if you live somewhere dry and safe you’re probably better off with nice rim brakes than cheap mechanical disk brakes that aren’t properly adjusted.

Another annoying one is internally routed cables.

Some good things do happen though, e.g. thru axles, small and light TPU inner tubes.

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#72

Post by nmpennypacker »

abrookewood wrote: post #66
nmpennypacker wrote: post #51

I ride a titanium bike with rim brakes. It was custom made, and relatively expensive ($5,000 USD), but it is the only bike I ride, and it will last my entire lifetime, and more (it will require occasional component upgrades, just like any other bike). Plus, the ride quality is superb. I've found that, as with most things, investing in quality over quantity is the way to go. My bike may have been slightly 'less green'…

Can I ask what model you got? I've been looking at titanium for ages, but can't commit to anything.

Absolutely! I have a Litespeed T1SL, and I'm very happy with it. I've heard great things about Moots bikes as well, but they're about twice the price and they don't make a rim brake model. The main reasons I went with the Litespeed were the rim brakes (I can fix mechanical components myself), and the fact that you can peel off the decals, so the bike looks like fairly generic, minus a badge behind the seatpost and one on the stem tube.

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#73

Post by hammyhavoc »

ggm wrote: post #2

There's nothing wrong with continuous improvement but when you are trying to fine tune something in the flat portion of an exponential scale, and lets face it, even the most expensive bike shown here is 1/2 the burden of an ICE engine car, you have to ask yourself: is this optimisation really the core problem? I argue: it's not. It's polishing. It's functionally a bit time-wast-y compared to reductions in the cost, a…

Oh no, not his tattoo costs.

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#74

Post by paulcole »

leemailll wrote: post #44
paulcole wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I paid about $1,000 for a steel-frame touring bike about 15 years ago. I commute/run errands for a few thousand miles a year on it. Every 2-3 years, I get it overhauled at a cost of about $500. Other than that, I’ve replaced wheels and tires a few times and break pads on average about once a year, plus the occasional random issue. So for me, the cost of maintenance quickly outpaced the cost of the bike. But it’s stil…

what kind of service cost you $500? that's pretty high unless you replace a lot stuff

Shop near me is $275 for an overhaul:

> We’ll take apart your bike piece by piece, overhaul the bearing systems and put it together again. Then we’ll perform a full-tune up, install new brake and shifting cables if needed, and give it a thorough cleaning. It’ll ride like new.

http://gladysbikes.com/mechanical-service

I always tell them to just replace anything you’d replace if it was your bike. Generally after 3 years there’s something they replace like rebuilding a wheel or something. I’ve always been very happy with the service and value because other than light cleaning and oiling I don’t put any effort into maintaining my bike.

The mechanic (same guy I’ve seen for the past decade) told me (in a backhanded compliment sort of way), “This is really a testament to how well a bike can hold up with no maintenance other than an overhaul every few years.”

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#75

Post by paulcole »

dylan604 wrote: post #53
paulcole wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I paid about $1,000 for a steel-frame touring bike about 15 years ago. I commute/run errands for a few thousand miles a year on it. Every 2-3 years, I get it overhauled at a cost of about $500. Other than that, I’ve replaced wheels and tires a few times and break pads on average about once a year, plus the occasional random issue. So for me, the cost of maintenance quickly outpaced the cost of the bike. But it’s stil…

>But it’s still a pittance compared to the cost of car ownership. I'm not really sure where the unrealistic expectation of zero dollar expense on maintenance of a bike comes from, but it seems the norm. No matter what though, it is still pennies on the dollar for any kind of expense from a car. The most expensive thing I can do for an upgrade to my bike is to have hydraulic brakes installed, and that's <$400 with pay…

I’ve never owned a car or even driven one. So I don’t have a good sense of the costs there. I guess I don’t even see the bike as having costs, it’s an investment in moving myself around and feeling good.

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#76

Post by hollerith »

paulcole wrote: post #75
dylan604 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But it’s still a pittance compared to the cost of car ownership. I'm not really sure where the unrealistic expectation of zero dollar expense on maintenance of a bike comes from, but it seems the norm. No matter what though, it is still pennies on the dollar for any kind of expense from a car. The most expensive thing I can do for an upgrade to my bike is to have hydraulic brakes installed, and that's <$400 with pay…

I’ve never owned a car or even driven one. So I don’t have a good sense of the costs there. I guess I don’t even see the bike as having costs, it’s an investment in moving myself around and feeling good.

>I guess I don’t even see the bike as having costs, it’s an investment

Well, sure, if you want to ignore the standard an unambiguous meanings of "cost" and "investment" for poetical reason.

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#77

Post by gorjusborg »

harha wrote: post #47
gorjusborg wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the mindset behind the choices. You don't need disc brakes. You don't need carbon frames, or even aluminum ones. These things are marginally better performing than their predecessors, but we want things to get better and better forever. That is exactly what makes it unsustainable. We'd be better off settling for good and sustainable than best and unsustainable. That's all.

Well you don’t need disk brakes until you do when the car pops up in front of you. There’s a bunch of people who would gain more from losing weight than whatever the marketing department of the bike company tells them, but it’s great to have this choice. I’m having just as much fun cycling as I do reading up on the tech and tinkering with my bikes, that’s time I’m not spending on being interested in cars.

Yeah, I agree. I don't think we should stop improving things, and I don't think we should stop leveraging solutions we have come up with. I would say, be honest with yourself about what you need and understand that you are making trades.

Don't reward companies that want to push disc brakes (for instance) as a reason to ditch something that fits your purposes.

It's easy to cherry pick scenarios where a piece of tech would save you over the alternative, but life is holistic. We can adapt. The first step is to decide that it is worth trying to.

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#78

Post by toss1 »

jmoak3 wrote: post #54
toss1 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. I used to be an avid road biker, 10-40mi rides multiple time per week, hopping on 80mi day trips, Tuesday evening time trials, racing, etc. But it has been over a decade since my road bike has seen pavement. I keep it to mountain biking on trails now because the traffic everywhere has gotten too insane, and the drivers just seem less and less aware/alert/smart/skilled. And I've noticed in the last few month bad…

In a car dependent society such as our America, how do we expect a humongous and rapidly aging demographic to handle their loss of motor skills? By simply staying inside and becoming entirely dependent on kids they never had? They’ll be out on the roads - get a bigger car and don’t bike. I’m sad about it as well but I don’t see many options unless you’re in a unique area. For context, 1/3rd of Americans today are ove…

>>I don’t think car dependency will turn out to be a good one

VERY True!

And a huge amount of it is due to the corporations influencing against any form of public transportation in past decades.

The only thing that (almost paradoxically) is may be helping progress, is the surge in e-bikes. It's both bringing a lot of people into biking, and/or enabling them to bike longer distances, so encouraging a lot more. And apparently, the net exercise amounts are similar, so it's still a health benefit. With all that, maybe we'll get to serious support for biking one day. Soon, I hope.

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#79

Post by paulcole »

hollerith wrote: post #76
paulcole wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never owned a car or even driven one. So I don’t have a good sense of the costs there. I guess I don’t even see the bike as having costs, it’s an investment in moving myself around and feeling good.

>I guess I don’t even see the bike as having costs, it’s an investment Well, sure, if you want to ignore the standard an unambiguous meanings of "cost" and "investment" for poetical reason.

Yes, that's what I was doing. Great job picking up on that!

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#80

Post by samstave »

ggm wrote: post #2

There's nothing wrong with continuous improvement but when you are trying to fine tune something in the flat portion of an exponential scale, and lets face it, even the most expensive bike shown here is 1/2 the burden of an ICE engine car, you have to ask yourself: is this optimisation really the core problem? I argue: it's not. It's polishing. It's functionally a bit time-wast-y compared to reductions in the cost, a…

There is a bike shop in Marin that does some custom bike work, one of which is replacing these famous brakes which cost $1,500 PER brake, and one of the things he needs, which they dont manufacture any longer is a single washer that is specific to that brake - and since you cant get these parts any longer, the brakes are nuts expensive...
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