I needed rabies shots before I went to South America. The NHS doesn't cover the vaccine but they will stick it in your arm for free. So I spent £50 at a pharmacist for the three phials and the nurse at my doctor's surgery administered the first two. The last dose was due the day before I left but the nurse was off sick. So I rang another local surgery and the nurse there was happy to do the job. The American system baffles me.
Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots
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Re: Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots
#72I once dropped in to a hospital near Vacaville, maybe the same one.
There was a security guard at the front with a grey keypad. The would not speak to you unless you entered your Social Security Number. I made the mistake of entering it but thought nothing would happen because I didn't see any live human. Guess what? $800 bill for the pleasure of seeing exactly no service provider. This is how they work.
Re: Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots
#73Agreed while this is excessive, many hospitals do this to cover the uninsured who don't pay their bills. Hospitals have to care for such patients due to EMTALA. Consequently many non-academic hospitals are under huge financial stress ( https://www.kqed.org/science/1981588/half-of-california-hosp... ) and go after anyone that can pay to the point of bankrupting them. The US medical system is simply dysfunctional.
> The US medical system is simply dysfunctional. That's an epic understatement. I'm of the opinion that the root cause is the insurance companies.
That's an overly simplistic hot take. You have to look at the interests involved.
Sure, in some other countries, for-profit health insurance is illegal.
There are many more for-profit hospitals in the US than there were 40 years ago. Many not-for-profits sold out to for-profit companies. I believe John Oliver or VICE did a piece on this years ago.
Then there are the doctors. Only in the US is being a doctor insanely lucrative. Not all US doctors are out to financially abuse patients, but there are enough who are complicit in the hospital and outpatient practice system who enable mass exploitation.
Single-payer wouldn't end this. Medicare for all wouldn't even be close to fixing the problem. Most of Medicare is administered by for-profit health insurance companies. Medicare pays, but doesn't cover 100%. It still requires paying for one of a laundry list of letters Medicare supplemental and prescription plans. Also, the US doesn't have a functional mental healthcare system. And that's not covered either. Dental and vision also aren't covered.
Re: Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Dispute the debt. They can't put a lien on property without a court case and I want to see someone stand in front of a judge and justify an un-itemized 100k bill when their own public charge sheet shows that the service should cost <1000.
That doesn't work in the real world. Their army of lawyers can and will outspend you at every turn. They will force you into bankruptcy when you should've declared bankruptcy to begin with.
But do they want to outspend you? Especially if the case is not a sure win for them.
Re: Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots
#75That's a shitty bill. It's also insane that US doctors and hospitals aren't required to post prices, keep prices reasonably within an allowed range, and are allowed to price gouge customers for however much they want without limit. In Redding CA, I ran across a woman with a nasal infusion pump tube taped to her face in a coffee shop. She was hurriedly collecting paperwork for a hearing across the street. It turns out…
> The hospital is required to make its charges public. NorthBay Health's online listing shows $547.65 for a rabies vaccine.
I checked the price at my local discount chemist. 115AUD or 76USD.
Re: Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots
#76Brazil here. A few years ago, my wife was bitten by a dog. We simply went to the neighborhood free healthcare clinic, the standard entry point to our free universal healthcare system. After a very short wait they cleaned the wound and administered the first rabies vaccine. We went back there for the next doses. All free of charge, and the only "paperwork" she needed to do was to present her national ID card. https://…
This thread isn't about developed countries
Re: Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's meaningless unless you can get a price before you get services. The trouble is even if the price list says $500 for something, they'll charge you $8000 for "general classification" and $2000 for a Tylenol. I have a remote heart monitor at my bedside that, upon pressing a button, wirelessly retrieves data about arrythmia incidents from my implanted defibrillator and sends any incidents to the hospital. Every time…
Exactly. Come in unconscious and bleeding out from a car wreck: "No, no, no.. take me to the other hospital with lower prices. And I don't want $100 acetaminophen."
Not all hospital visits are emergencies. I had an implanted defibrillator replaced recently. It's a life-saving device but I had a 3-month window to do it, so I most definitely picked "the other hospital" that I didn't have billing issues with the last time.
Also, a car wreck should not be a reason to nickel-and-dime someone unreasonably. And if I knew they were giving me acetominaphen for $1000 and I could wait it out for an hour I'd 100% refuse it and ask a family member to bring me some from Walgreen's for <$10. I'm not exactly swimming in money here.
Re: Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots
#78Brazil here. A few years ago, my wife was bitten by a dog. We simply went to the neighborhood free healthcare clinic, the standard entry point to our free universal healthcare system. After a very short wait they cleaned the wound and administered the first rabies vaccine. We went back there for the next doses. All free of charge, and the only "paperwork" she needed to do was to present her national ID card. https://…
Wikipedia says it's free for foreigners and nationals, so I'm curious why they require the ID.
I am pretty sure that ID is not required, but they ask for it, so that they can access and update your medical records.
Re: Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The US medical system is simply dysfunctional. That's an epic understatement. I'm of the opinion that the root cause is the insurance companies.
That's an overly simplistic hot take. You have to look at the interests involved. Sure, in some other countries, for-profit health insurance is illegal. There are many more for-profit hospitals in the US than there were 40 years ago. Many not-for-profits sold out to for-profit companies. I believe John Oliver or VICE did a piece on this years ago. Then there are the doctors. Only in the US is being a doctor insanely…
> Only in the US is being a doctor insanely lucrative.
And only for some doctors. Most aren't making crazy money at all.
> Single-payer wouldn't end this.
I never said it would. But this is a thing that most other modern nations have figured out (imperfectly, sure, but orders of magnitude better than we have in the US). It's insane that the US can't seem to resolve this situation, especially considering that it kills people.
But then, we here in the US don't seem to prioritize actually helping people. The US is the wealthiest, most powerful nation in the history of the planet. That we allow anyone to go without a roof over their head, food in their belly, and adequate medical care is criminal.
Re: Bay Area couple shocked by $200K hospital bill for rabies shots
#80How is that legal? What is stopping the hospital from charging 200 million dollars for the rabies shots? If I hired someone to fix my plumbing and they wouldn't give me an estimate and then decided to charge me $20k/hr I don't think a court would honor that contract.
It's legal and legitimized because of corruption.
Whoever has the most money in America captured the regulators and politicians through money conveyed to them by lobbyists.
You live without plumbing by making different arrangements but you can't live with a fatal lyssavirus.