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New Mexico is losing a form of Spanish spoken nowhere else

nytimes.com

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Re: New Mexico is losing a form of Spanish spoken nowhere else

#71

Post by nortonham »

nortonham wrote: post #44
VeninVidiaVicii wrote: post #40

This is my dialect! We’ve always attracted linguists because of our unique mix of cultures. For instance, we have lots of words for turkey - guíjalo/guajalote (and various combinations of the two), pavo, ganso real, cócono, and yes, even torque.

guajalote is common with everyone I've meet from mexico and parts of central america, so is pavo

and to add to that, pavo is often used just to refer to the food, the cooked meat, and guajalote to the animal.

Same for pigs (Cerdo, chancho) and pork (puerco).

Re: New Mexico is losing a form of Spanish spoken nowhere else

#72

Post by maxbond »

25throw25 wrote: post #63
sdrothrock wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a heads up: "crypto Jew" is also an antisemitic buzz word, which is why I suspect the linked article says "hidden" instead.

[flagged]

FYI your comments were probably flagged because it's a fresh account. I've seen it with entirely innocuous posts from brand new accounts before.

You're right that it's not antisemitic but you've got some details wrong (that kinda make it sound antisemitic as it happens). They specifically hid their identity to flee the Inquisition, it's not some kind of ongoing deception. They generally don't identify as Jews or worship at temples or practice Judaism but have fossilized customs light lighting the candles on Saturday evenings and such. Sometimes people convert to Judaism to reclaim that aspect of their heritage.

But it's easy to see how the idea of Jews as deceptive plays into antisemitic narratives, no?

Re: New Mexico is losing a form of Spanish spoken nowhere else

#73

Post by the_only_law »

maxbond wrote: post #72
25throw25 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

FYI your comments were probably flagged because it's a fresh account. I've seen it with entirely innocuous posts from brand new accounts before. You're right that it's not antisemitic but you've got some details wrong (that kinda make it sound antisemitic as it happens). They specifically hid their identity to flee the Inquisition, it's not some kind of ongoing deception. They generally don't identify as Jews or wors…

Nah, some green accounts do have some sort of “shadowban” until they get vouched but they usually just appear only as [dead]. I’m pretty sure [flagged] comments are specifically user flagged, but correct me if I’m wrong.

Re: New Mexico is losing a form of Spanish spoken nowhere else

#74

Post by maxbond »

the_only_law wrote: post #73
maxbond wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI your comments were probably flagged because it's a fresh account. I've seen it with entirely innocuous posts from brand new accounts before. You're right that it's not antisemitic but you've got some details wrong (that kinda make it sound antisemitic as it happens). They specifically hid their identity to flee the Inquisition, it's not some kind of ongoing deception. They generally don't identify as Jews or wors…

Nah, some green accounts do have some sort of “shadowban” until they get vouched but they usually just appear only as [dead]. I’m pretty sure [flagged] comments are specifically user flagged, but correct me if I’m wrong.

Yeah that's right afaik, good point. I bet the flag threshold on green accounts is super low though, probably just 1.

Re: New Mexico is losing a form of Spanish spoken nowhere else

#75

Post by guywithahat »

ars wrote: post #60
guywithahat wrote: post #59

It's always sad to see dialects die, however unless you're trying to decrease migration between neighboring countries (such as Israel speaking Hebrew) it seems like a good thing. In the case of New Mexico, it's a US state and I don't see an advantage in keeping it around.

> unless you're trying to decrease migration between neighboring countries (such as Israel speaking Hebrew) Say what now? Israelis don't speak Hebrew to "decrease migration", they speak Hebrew because it's their ancestral language with a greater than 3,000 year history.

Although I agree in that there's certainly room for debate, it's a fact Israel has strict immigration laws, many of these laws are focused around keeping local Muslim populations out while bringing global Jewish populations in, and when Israel was founded millions of Jewish people from the neighboring countries (namely Egypt and Saudi Arabia) moved to Israel. They could have spoken a local language or even a European one, but they decided to learn the (at the time extinct) language Hebrew was because it was unique to Jews, and this was a Zionist country and movement.

Re: New Mexico is losing a form of Spanish spoken nowhere else

#76

Post by maxbond »

sdrothrock wrote: post #70
LudwigNagasena wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is getting so tiring. How are normal people supposed to navigate in this world where normal words[1] and expressions are constantly being re-analyzed as fascist dogwhistles? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto-Judaism

My general impression, possibly out of ignorance, has been that there have always been lots of these and people (read: me) were just unaware of them. Some, like this (and "88" on usernames) are sometimes (often?) legitimate but have also been used as dog whistles... and fascism stains everything it touches.

Indeed, it's the fascists and bigots who appropriate words and employ ever shifting rhetoric to avoid being labeled as fascists or bigots and to try and conflate their ideology with as many pre-existing ideas as possible who are to blame for this linguistic treadmill, and not the people who point out that dog whistles are real.

In the same way security researchers are not responsible for security vulnerabilities, but may take heat for pointing them out.

That being said, just because they try to appropriate the terms doesn't mean it has to work. They can be reappropriated back to their original meaning.

Re: New Mexico is losing a form of Spanish spoken nowhere else

#77

Post by arthurofbabylon »

chaostheory wrote: post #57

I don’t feel that this is a bad thing. Not being able to speak and understand each other’s languages just helps increase conflict due to less empathy. While there are cons to less spoken languages, overall the world would be better off with less spoken languages.

A language is a map to reality. More languages means more maps, more conceptual models, more strategies of existence.

Consider this: each additional language improves humanity's capacity to evolve and shift, a particularly valuable trait considering the pace of environmental and socioeconomic change. More languages increases the likelihood that humanity will continue to survive and maybe even thrive. (Reality one hundred, one thousand, and ten thousand years from now will each demand different models or languages.)

Re: New Mexico is losing a form of Spanish spoken nowhere else

#78

Post by BlackSwanMan »

arthurofbabylon wrote: post #77
chaostheory wrote: post #57

I don’t feel that this is a bad thing. Not being able to speak and understand each other’s languages just helps increase conflict due to less empathy. While there are cons to less spoken languages, overall the world would be better off with less spoken languages.

A language is a map to reality. More languages means more maps, more conceptual models, more strategies of existence. Consider this: each additional language improves humanity's capacity to evolve and shift, a particularly valuable trait considering the pace of environmental and socioeconomic change. More languages increases the likelihood that humanity will continue to survive and maybe even thrive. (Reality one hun…

[flagged]

Re: New Mexico is losing a form of Spanish spoken nowhere else

#79

Post by davidw »

nortonham wrote: post #44
VeninVidiaVicii wrote: post #40

This is my dialect! We’ve always attracted linguists because of our unique mix of cultures. For instance, we have lots of words for turkey - guíjalo/guajalote (and various combinations of the two), pavo, ganso real, cócono, and yes, even torque.

guajalote is common with everyone I've meet from mexico and parts of central america, so is pavo

Huh... "pavone" is peacock in Italian.

Re: New Mexico is losing a form of Spanish spoken nowhere else

#80

Post by denimnerd42 »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #69
thequadehunter wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly all too common even with popular languages. I ask my dad why he never taught me Spanish and he just "didn't really think about it". Such a wasted opportunity for free goods.

I was having a related discussion with my wife about why our nephews weren’t taught Spanish as a first language (we live in Texas, their dad is bilingual). Frankly, having English as your first language gives you a much higher advantage in life in the current zeitgeist. There’s no incentive to learn RandomLanguage first, but there is every incentive to learn English first.

I'm not really sure that's how it ends up working in reality though if you have exposure to English through school or childcare. We taught our kid Chinese first. He's now 2, almost 3, but he's equally good in both languages, maybe a little better in English at this point since he goes to school every day. So by 3 years old he's just as good or better than his peers in English but also is a native speaker in another language. I can see how a parent might think they are putting their kid at a disadvantage by not concentrating on English but language just comes so naturally to these young children.
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