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The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

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Re: The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

#71

Post by sunbum »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #53
fwungy wrote: post #49

Were these the same people who told us the glaciers would be melted and the Maldives under water by 2000? How narcissistic do you have to be to believe the world is going to end in your little eye blink of a lifetime? Look, the West can go carbon negative, but it makes no difference at all if China and India just use the West's carbon virtue to increase their own carbon consumption (that the West isn't using). We rea…

> We really should be thinking about next generation nuclear and mitigation as first tier strategies and not attempting to remake human nature in a few generations time. It's funny, because a lot of "greens" are asking for less carbon-* or carbon neutral stuff, but are immediately against anything nuclear, even though it's the only option we have, to generate enough power, even on windless nights. There are even comi…

Because the "greens" of the cold war are the same people today. Totally yes that must entirely be it!

Re: The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

#72

Post by frereubu »

fwungy wrote: post #49

Were these the same people who told us the glaciers would be melted and the Maldives under water by 2000? How narcissistic do you have to be to believe the world is going to end in your little eye blink of a lifetime? Look, the West can go carbon negative, but it makes no difference at all if China and India just use the West's carbon virtue to increase their own carbon consumption (that the West isn't using). We rea…

I take your point, but this isn't a zero-sum game, as has been shown by the plummeting cost of solar energy. If enough countries move towards renewable enegy (and in the mid-term nuclear, agreed) it will become cheap enough that other will adopt it for purely economic reasons.

Re: The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

#73

Post by anonyfox »

mnd999 wrote: post #51
anonyfox wrote: post #12

No matter where you stand (some meat eaters tend to become extremely emotional on this): The fact that the scientific results and recommendations get utterly censored like this before publication makes me really angry. It’s somewhat fine for me if people/governments choose to ignore or argue against these results after publication, but this is just absurd… and is then used from people all over the world to point to „…

Those in power both in government and in the private sector seem to have completely lost interest in the bigger picture and are optimising for short-term personal wealth at pretty much any cost. Perhaps a benevolent AI is the only way forward.

just look even at the comments here on HN (not specifically in this thread): so many people are defending viewpoints that somewhat A is not as bad as B if only C would happen, or pulling up weird conspiracy stuff or whatever only to be able to deny what needs to be done.

We have the knowledge, the tech, the wealth, and everything possibly needed lined up to tackle the problem. But then people get somehow catched by wird arguments and turn against each other instead of simply doing what needs to be done together.

Re: The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

#74

Post by mejutoco »

I find it bad that scientific results get censored, and I am also wondering if there is proof that a plant-based diet is more healthy. My suspicion is it might be for the average American, but it is based on gut feeling (pun intended).

I remember margarine (plant-based) was all the rage too and IIRC it was much less healthy than butter (animal-based).

My guess is it depends on the specific meals.

Re: The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

#75

Post by colordrops »

mejutoco wrote: post #74

I find it bad that scientific results get censored, and I am also wondering if there is proof that a plant-based diet is more healthy. My suspicion is it might be for the average American, but it is based on gut feeling (pun intended). I remember margarine (plant-based) was all the rage too and IIRC it was much less healthy than butter (animal-based). My guess is it depends on the specific meals.

Margarine is a synthetic product, with the oil created in complex refineries then hydrogenated. You can't compare this to something like lentil stew or a salad.

If the recommendation is that eating anything you want as long as the origin can be traced back to plants, then I agree, plant based diets aren't necessarily healthier. A WFPB (whole foods plant based) diet is undeniably healthy though.

The problem with margarine is orthogonal - it's due to processing. Processing has been shown to be very unhealthy whether with plant based products like margarine, or animal based products like hot dogs.

In any case the IPCC's recommendation is about the environment, and there is no doubt that animal foods are far worse for the environment.

Re: The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

#76

Post by asterix_pano »

waihtis wrote: post #9

The discussion around plants, meat and dairy need to become much more nuanced. Let's take dairy as an example - has a great effect in boosting mTORC1 activity which causes better growth in children. Now, a non-insignificant set of people who have bought into zealous veganry are raising children who will be physically more fragile just because they've been marketed with the idea that dairy == bad. On the other hand, o…

I have looked extensively for this and there is no study that shows that vegan children will be more fragile. Often they boast healthier cholesterol levels and body fat and better nutrient levels. And then, if that were true, is it better to be bigger? Dairy and meat increase the risk of developing cancers and cardiovascular diseases. Is it worth it?

Re: The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

#77

Post by doctor_eval »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #55
anonyfox wrote: post #12

No matter where you stand (some meat eaters tend to become extremely emotional on this): The fact that the scientific results and recommendations get utterly censored like this before publication makes me really angry. It’s somewhat fine for me if people/governments choose to ignore or argue against these results after publication, but this is just absurd… and is then used from people all over the world to point to „…

The problem here is, that the giant corporations can pollute the environment (eg. coca cola in a plastic bottle, with a plastic cap, with a plastic label, wrapped in a plastic 6-pack, with a plastic handle, on a plastic pallet wrapped in plastic foil), and rich environmentalists then fly their private jets to some 'green' conference and tell an 'average joe' that he shouldn't drive his car and eat meat, and should pa…

The trope of the rich environmentalist flying their private jet, is just that. I’m sure that some exist, but the vast majority take far more care of the environment than that.

Re: The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

#78

Post by asterix_pano »

NovaDudely wrote: post #52
alphabetatheta wrote: post #5

I'm actually surprised how much dairy products contribute to global warming. It's only veganism that really cuts down on carbon emissions.

I'm not too surprised, in some ways Dairy is the meat industry by proxy. All dairy cattle end up in the same abattoirs.

On top of that they have one of the most miserable life we could imagine. Birthing babies and getting them taken away ASAP to give milk to a machine and getting slaughtered when you are less productive... It's hard to describe our lack of empathy to create and accept such systems.

Re: The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

#79

Post by marliechiller »

cfn wrote: post #62
fredrikholm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? The problem is that cattle consumes orders of magnitude more water compared to plants, on top of the fact that they also eat plants, of which they convert a small portion of into (edible) mass. Their urine, en masse, is highly toxic to the local environment as it kills plants (high salt content, fertilizer burn) and pollutes rivers (pH, over-fertilization, algae blooming).

I live in a very small island where the main industry has been cattle (meat and milk production) for several decades. If the urine of the cows was toxic, the island would have been deserted a long time ago. It is as green as it has ever been, just lookup the Azores for some pictures. It is true that lot feeds and industrialized cattle production create massive amounts of pollution but so does industrialized agricultu…

thats... not how toxicity is working in this sense and your anecdote doesnt disprove what he is saying. Another anecdote - I went surfing at the end of last summer and was advised not to go into the sea as there had been heavy rains up the valley which had washed refuse off the fields and into the estuary. Lots of people who ignored the advice got sick that day as it turns out the runoff is toxic.

Re: The meat industry blocked the IPCC’s attempt to recommend a plant-based diet

#80

Post by realworldperson »

anonyfox wrote: post #12

No matter where you stand (some meat eaters tend to become extremely emotional on this): The fact that the scientific results and recommendations get utterly censored like this before publication makes me really angry. It’s somewhat fine for me if people/governments choose to ignore or argue against these results after publication, but this is just absurd… and is then used from people all over the world to point to „…

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