While trying to describe a rather large system change an SVP in a large company once told me: it's just an 'if' statement
Is it ok to respond with "then why haven't you done it already?"
Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work
71–80 of 135 posts
Re: Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work
#72ios is a lot of work, programming in general is a lot of work. It is 2012 not 1992, business people in all fields should know programming is not cheap. Business people who do not do the research, don't bother with them. Avoid them at all cost. I've learn the best clients are the ones who value your work and are willing to pay for it. Their is a shortage of great programmers.
> It is 2012 not 1992 On the other hand, think of what you could accomplish with a weekend of work in 1992 and compare that to 2012. Our abilities as developers/designers/etc are vastly improved due to improved infrastructure, tools, communications, resources, etc. You could build a distributed photo hosting and viewing application back in 1992. But you'd probably be writing it in C++ and it might take you a long tim…
think of what you could accomplish with a weekend of work in 1992 and compare that to 2012
In 1992 I could bang out some really effective CUI applications in no time at all. People really hadn't transitioned to Windows at that point. Now, I have to write a web app, or a mobile app, and it takes hours upon hours to learn the ins and outs of each new API, weeks to figure out how to customize the flashy UI to what the client wants, etc. So, yeah, programmer tools have gotten vastly better, but expectations and complexity have risen faster.
Re: Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work
#73This is completely false. Only a decent iOS app takes a lot of work. A crappy one can be done very quickly and cheaply.
Fast, good, cheap. Pick two.
Re: Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work
#74Multiple reasons for this: First, too many stories along the lines of "I built this app for $1,000 in India and it is making me $50K per month". Second, kids who don't know how to value their time who'll work like slaves for $2,000. Third, bad programmers who deliver product cheaply enough, however, the underlying code is an absolute mess. They charge nothing, throw it together and move on. Fourth, people tend to com…
> Second, kids who don't know how to value their time who'll work like slaves for $2,000.
That's not always the case - if you manage to work $2000 /8h/day/month in my country , you're already being paid in the top .. 10% programmers.
Money has a different value based on location.
Re: Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
So $15k was the cost the iOS developer charged you? What was the cost of having the art assets and server side functionality done in house? Adding that to the $15k seems to be the actual cost of the app. Also how much time was spent designing the app before art assets were made or server side programming started?
Right, that's the point I was making - if you had to pay for those services to an external party, the cost goes up, quickly. I did the server side work, my co-founder did the artwork, both at a > 0 opportunity cost I'm sure. We designed the app ourselves, again, at some non-zero opportunity cost.
But what is the app worth? This sort of creative accounting is the problem that this article is trying to highlight.
If you strip out all the bullshit making an iOS app is going to be expensive because you can't cheat time and everyone's time is worth something.
If you mention to someone that you made your app "for only $15k" this just compounds the problem because that person has a skewed perception of what an app is actually worth.
Re: Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work
#76As a "business person" I need to know three things to hire someone: 1) how much did it cost other people to build similar apps (comparative analysis) 2) that you are able to build the product successfully (reducing technical risk) 3) that the price is low enough that the estimated Rev will produce a return (ROI) - If you can present those points clearly you will be in a much better position to make more money with le…
I don't disagree with you but I think ROI is a business owners case to make. You know your projections and it is up to you to take what I say it cost to fairly compensate me and see if it matches with your expected ROI, if it does not, we can negotiate, if the numbers are not there, then they are not there. But I don't think it is on me to prove out your ROI. Chances are you already know this number, before you even…
Agreed. You can help the business person pay more for development if you can help them maximize revenue or lower marketing costs (or some other outside expense)
If you think of development as using technology to scale down cost or scale up revenues there is plenty you can add as a developer to the ROI discussion.
Re: Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work
#77This is a message on NY Tech meetup mailing list, from about a half hour ago. All I could do is shake my head. _____________ I am seeking a telephony app. builder that can deliver a PhoneGap lie ( non-native) inexpensive app. for a telephony project. pay is: $350 + 1% equity stake in a newly formed Delaware Corp. and 2.5% on all residuals. possible board seat (future paid projects) if you can deliver an additional in…
> I am seeking a telephony app. builder that can deliver a PhoneGap lie ( non-native) inexpensive app. for a telephony project.
Emphasis on "phony"
Re: Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work
#78This might be a stupid thought, but I wonder if there's a psychological issue at play for iPhone apps in particular where people subconsciously think small form factor = pretty simple = pretty cheap. Of course, the reality is usually exactly opposite.
You're absolutely right. "Simple to use, simple to build" is another thought in people’s minds. They don't realize it's actually harder to build something that's simple to use.
Re: Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work
#79> These APIs must be in existence before you can proceed to make the iPhone app. I disagree. Yes, it's nice to have everything in hand when you start, but I've built multiple apps concurrently with the backend development. The trick is to isolate your networking in the model layer (a good practice regardless of whether or not the API is already done). This allows you to stub or use dummy data until things come online…
You're right. The APIs don't need to be implemented, just documented.
I'll go you one further. It's better to work without a functioning API. With stubs and dummies, you can tightly control inputs and test way more effectively. If you're developing against an active api, you add a whole level of complexity that makes it that much harder to debug. I don't know how many hours I've wasted trying to find bugs that turned out to be outside the scope of what I was working on.
Re: Dear business people, an iOS app actually takes a lot of work
#80Multiple reasons for this: First, too many stories along the lines of "I built this app for $1,000 in India and it is making me $50K per month". Second, kids who don't know how to value their time who'll work like slaves for $2,000. Third, bad programmers who deliver product cheaply enough, however, the underlying code is an absolute mess. They charge nothing, throw it together and move on. Fourth, people tend to com…
Ever watch the tv show "pawn stars"? At least once an episode there's some guy - with no idea about what he has - walk in with an idea that they're going to sell some piece of trash for $5,000. When the bosses actually look at the piece, they offer $100. the guy leaves the shop hurt because "it's gotta be worth more than that", in spite of the fact that they don't know antiques or don't know how to run a basic business.
Same thing I think happens with programming. "I have this idea, and I know (somehow) that $500 is a fair price, in spite of the fact that they are neither technical people or... ever commissioned custom development before".
So, it's not just software development...