Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Wasn't Paid

iwasntpaid.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 201 posts

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#71

Post by _k »

cdr wrote: post #40
rglover wrote: post #6

Not the best route to handle this. Make sure you have a decent lawyer on hand (and a good contrct) when dealing with delinquent clients. Something like this will guarantee that you'll never get paid.

The classic: http://vimeo.com/22053820

This video was the first thing I thought of when I read the article!

I once worked for someone who refused to pay me for my work and at first I didn't want to sue him because of several BS excuses: - I never sued anyone before. - He seemed like a nice guy. - It was the first time I worked for him but he wasn't a total stranger to me - He had offered me work before so I figured he's someone who's probably going to ask for my services again some time in the future. - I knew he had worked with other people and I never heard them say bad things about the guy. - It wasn't a lot of money.

Turns out this guy did it to everyone I talked to! How did they get paid ? By taking a haircut! One guy didn't take a haircut but he did for a future project. He needed the money.

I'm not here to tell others what they should do but have some self-respect. I sued him and I'm glad I did. He didn't get a discount at all. My lawyer doesn't come cheap, nor do interest payments.

Would I put that guy's name online? No.

Invest your time in a good contract. Ask a percentage upfront. Watch the video.

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#72

Post by Karunamon »

gavingmiller wrote: post #38

Ultimately it's your fault as a contractor if you don't get paid. And a site like this does nothing to teach developers, freelances, designers, and the like how to avoid these pitfalls which is why I'll never use it. Why is it your fault? Because as a professional you've not taken the time/money to have a contract created to cover your ass. Contracts exist to protect both parties from each other. And it is your profe…

>Ultimately it's your fault as a contractor if you don't get paid.

Um.. what? It looks like, judging by the first story on the page, there was a contract which he successfully sued the delinquent client with, and it's just taking forever to collect.

It's not your fault that the judicial system is an inefficient mess and that people lie.

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#73

Post by jagbolanos »

We are currently bootstrapping our startup with some consulting work in iOS and Rails. This is the process that we follow:

1) We discuss the project with the client stating our hourly rates clearly from the beginning and that we also work in our startup so we won't be a "full-time" developer 2) We then make a clear estimation of time and deliverables for the project + time for testing/debugging/QA + time for calls + time to prepare for publication to the App Store. 3) If they accept we make a clear contract with several payments and deliverables. 4) We ask for 20% to 40% upfront payment and then the rest divided by time and deliverable completion. 5) The last payment is conditioned to App Store approval (in case it is iOS) 6) We only give the source code after the last payment is done 7) We keep sending weekly updates usually via TestFlight (when iOS) and use a Google Doc for any observations that they have 8) We have discovered that some clients also want time spent so we always use toggl as time tracking tool.

I know there are still risks but at least with the upfront payment and deliverable payments you always keep healthy cashflow, the clients feel they are protected and you feel protected too.

This way it's also easier to detect a red flag, in that case you can just stop your development until the payment is done (We actually did that once now and it worked really well).

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#74

Post by chc »

Alex3917 wrote: post #39
jeremymcanally wrote: post #3

While I sometimes wish something like this existed, it seems ripe for abuse and/or open to some sort of libel law violation should it get out of control.

Isn't it already explicitly illegal to post lists of customers who haven't paid in your store? IANAL, but I seem to remember that the case law is already pretty settled on this one.

IANAL, but having been previously affiliated with a company that did this, my understanding as far as general US law goes is that while it's illegal for collectors to name names, the original creditor can name and shame all he wants as long as he doesn't disclose truly private information ("This is the jerk's SSN!") and sticks to facts he can prove if a libel suit arises.

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#75

Post by iclelland »

Jayasimhan wrote: post #63

on the iwasntpaid.com site: I was eager that the service would let me search for the client names and get reviews on them quickly. And providing a very basic template for each story for the author to enter metadata around the story. I think that would be a much better experience for readers and contributors.

> I was eager that the service would let me search for the client names and get reviews on them quickly.

That's what I was expecting -- I tried to search for "Martinez" and "Padbury"; two of the names prominently featured in the front page stories right now, and got a "0 results" page for both terms.

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#76

Post by bradly »

ZenCash is new startup that is solving the problem the right way. It can connect with your invoicing service (FreshBooks, Harvest, Blinksale) and then they will contact the client when the refuse to pay. They work with a collection agency so now we the lone web developer can actually force someone to pay.

http://www.zencash.com/

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#77

Post by corywatilo »

Actually collecting isn't that hard (in the U.S., at least). I won a similar case in small claims and the defendant didn't pay. All I had to do was file a form for the Sheriff's office to collect from him and pay the filing fee (I think around $45, which was then added to the amount to collect). I provided the defendant's bank account info, and when he was unresponsive to the police, they withdrew the amount from his account into an escrow account and then cut me a check for the amount owed and mailed it to me.

This can probably be a little more challenging if the account doesn't have sufficient funds in it, but I was happy to see that the system worked. It was a learning process for me (first time I had to do it, and thankfully, knock on wood, the last), but in the end, justice was done and I got paid.

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#78

Post by lizzard »

Gustomaximus wrote: post #23

In an ideal world this is great but anonymously posted data only could increase problems with people posting one or many stories about others they just want to harm for personal reasons. While self naming probably increases the chance of legal issues I think people should have the choice to say I am the person he did this to to help credibility. And if one have it all documented there should be nothing to be worried…

It strikes me that the anonymity is mostly pointless here. It may be meant to protect the accuser of taking a hit to their own reputation, but the accused can just post the accuser's name and their own side of the story in comments or on another site. So in the long run, there wouldn't be much benefit to posting anonymously.

We had a discussion about this last weekend at She's Geeky. There are some women's lists that pass around information like, say, managers at {big company} who are known harassers and should be avoided. If we stick to backchannels to share this type of information, we aren't helping, perhaps, the very people (new to a company or a scene) who need it most. If we put the information in public, we suffer the blowback on many fronts; and our vulnerability is greater than that of the accused. I tend to come down on the side of greater transparency, but it may be that the most privileged person still "wins" -- except, as someone pointed out earlier, when 5 developers report similar experiences.

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#79

Post by frederico »

Upon reading this article I seem to think that in most cases it's actually the developers fault. Don't be retarded; create a contract for the work you do with your potential employer.

I've been doing freelance for quite some time; and did have two clients try to screw me over; however due to the contracts which I setup ahead of time, and having a lawyer send a simple note upon their threat of not paying, quickly remedied this non-paying issue.

1) Cover your ass 2) Setup a reasonable Payment schedule 3) Don't be stupid

Re: I Wasn't Paid

#80

Post by Kesty »

gavingmiller wrote: post #38

Ultimately it's your fault as a contractor if you don't get paid. And a site like this does nothing to teach developers, freelances, designers, and the like how to avoid these pitfalls which is why I'll never use it. Why is it your fault? Because as a professional you've not taken the time/money to have a contract created to cover your ass. Contracts exist to protect both parties from each other. And it is your profe…

Contract are only really usefull for big company and with big accounts.

For private freelancers and small/medium jobs suing someone for breach of contract will probably not be a viable option.

The amount of time, effort and money that you need to sue someone and win sometimes is seample not feasible.

Yes, having a contract written by a laywer may work as a deterrent for some clients. But if they don't accept you still need to file a lawsuit.

And there is also the problem that sometimes they simple can't pay. They look and act like they have all the money in the world, but they are actually betting all they have in a website because "making a website is easy and I will make millions with my great idea".

Then even if you win they are simply going bankrupt and you will never see nor your money nor the ones that you spent on lawyers.

Post reply on HN