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Google urges Android phone users to switch off Wi-Fi calling

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Re: Google urges Android phone users to switch off Wi-Fi calling

#71
post #17

For CalyxOS users this has been fixed in 4.7.x [1] https://calyxos.org/news/2023/03/18/another-march-update/

Confused, is this OS-level or baseband-level? If it's OS-level, how is there no mention of an Android version? If it's baseband-level, how can the OS fix it?

I don't know if it's true for this particular OS, but some OS's bundle the baseband, bootloader, and other vendor-specific images so that they're automatically updated, like with the stock OS.

Re: Google urges Android phone users to switch off Wi-Fi calling

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A phone (or any kind of internet-connected computer) that's been completely unsupported for years will presumably be low-hanging fruit for even the cheapest and crustiest of exploit kits.

That is, to put nicely, forced-obsolescence FUD. They want to scare you away with words like "unsupported" so they can keep you on their leash. With the state of software development today, I'd be more worried about how many other holes they've added in the process of fixing something or introducing unwanted new "features"[1]. Here's some interesting statistics to look at and compare... https://www.cvedetails.com/pro…

Are you claiming that unpatched software is more secure than patched software?

Re: Google urges Android phone users to switch off Wi-Fi calling

#74
post #22

Well, this was an awkward way to realise my phone hasn't been receiving security updates for years. Apparently Google quietly dropped support for it? The phone is otherwise in excellent condition. Any recommendations for a good third party OS that still supports Pixel 2?

I've been a (happy) Lineage OS user since 2013, and Pixel 2 is still supported by them, so you can check them out. But note that the security updates provided by Lineage OS only pertain to the Android part, not the modem part. This isn't something that a third party OS vendor can fix, as the modem/firmware updates are supplied by the device vendor. And even those are reliant on their suppliers, so ultimately unless t…

Thanks for that extensive write-up. This is some serious food for thought.

Also, I thought I recognised your username. I use at least one of your crates. Thanks for those, too! :)

Re: Google urges Android phone users to switch off Wi-Fi calling

#75
post #41

At this point I'd have to say that Wi-Fi calling is a dead feature, putting this particular issue aside. I just don't see the benefit in 2023. It made sense back when cellular networks were less mature. It also made sense when it could cut down on your wireless bill. But all you have to do is walk out of your house while on a phone call and realize how much the feature is degrading overall reliability. The LTE networ…

I have minimal cell signal in my house. It’s a godsend.

I think homes with back-plastered walls can be essentially faraday cages, depending on the aggregate content of the plaster. I have very dodgy 4g/5g unless I stand by a certain window, or go outside of the older part of my house, while the new part (metal roof, wallboard) has outdoor-like reception.

Re: Google urges Android phone users to switch off Wi-Fi calling

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pixel 6 and 7 are also guaranteed security updates for at least 5 years: https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705

And yet Google used Exynos for those designs. Somehow Samsung must have told project zero that they didn't need to release a fix - a project run by their customer for this SoC. But promptly after disclosure a fix appears. I guess it's good that they'll come out for five years, but it's probably worth a little bit of doubt on our part whether Samsung will actually deliver on that promise.

Oh my god is that why Apple has yet to put modems in their laptops? I could totally see Apple unable to compromise on support for a Qualcomm modem for something like 8 years.

Re: Google urges Android phone users to switch off Wi-Fi calling

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess, but it sure is nice that on Apple hardware you generally don’t need to worry about doing this calculus because they deliver updates in a timely manner to even five year old devices. It bums me out that them doing this hasn’t been effective in shaming everyone else into following suit.

The iPod Touch Gen 7 lasted just under 3 years from release. They may be better than many others but I just got bit by that one.

That is unfortunate. Certainly the trend has been for them to lengthen the support window over time— see this article for a decent summary: https://www.macworld.com/article/675021/how-long-does-apple-...

I wonder if Apple views the "iPod" branding as being more associated with gaming and consumption and therefore less important from a security standpoint. I don't think I necessarily would agree with such a stance when the exact same hardware can carry sensitive stuff like a password manager, banking and medical apps, and so-on. But I imagine their telemetry showed that that overwhelmingly wasn't the case, so it was easy not to prioritize it.

Re: Google urges Android phone users to switch off Wi-Fi calling

#78
Interesting that earlier coverage of this also indicated VoLTE as vulnerable, but a lot of phones don't have a way to turn that off - particularly since older protocols that support voice directly have been turned off.

I am curious whether attacks on this can be blocked at the carrier level.

Worst case you could do carrier level forwarding (via website or code so the call never hits your phone) to another number that you can also use on your device independent of the modem call handling. Obvious candidates would be Google Voice, Zoom Phone or other VOIP options. Google and Zoom may be the simplest options unless you're already using a SIP provider with a decent app, standalone SIP apps seem to be a weak area for app development. Last time I looked Zoiper and Grandstream Wave seemed like the best options not tied to specific VoIP providers.

Edit: Obviously this will then involve using that app for receiving calls, but you should be fine making outbound calls with your regular number.

Edit2: if using Zoom keep in mind that it limits the number of devices you can be simultaneously signed in on which may impact either receiving calls on your phone or being on Zoom conferences from larger devices like tablets.

Re: Google urges Android phone users to switch off Wi-Fi calling

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is, to put nicely, forced-obsolescence FUD. They want to scare you away with words like "unsupported" so they can keep you on their leash. With the state of software development today, I'd be more worried about how many other holes they've added in the process of fixing something or introducing unwanted new "features"[1]. Here's some interesting statistics to look at and compare... https://www.cvedetails.com/pro…

Are you claiming that unpatched software is more secure than patched software?

He's claiming with the amount of features being added for every security bug fixed in an update a bunch more are added.

However that ignores the fact that publicly known exploits are more dangerous for the average user than zerodays.

Re: Google urges Android phone users to switch off Wi-Fi calling

#80
post #41

At this point I'd have to say that Wi-Fi calling is a dead feature, putting this particular issue aside. I just don't see the benefit in 2023. It made sense back when cellular networks were less mature. It also made sense when it could cut down on your wireless bill. But all you have to do is walk out of your house while on a phone call and realize how much the feature is degrading overall reliability. The LTE networ…

You're struggling to figure out where wifi calling is helpful, really?

Maybe a house that doesn't get cell reception inside, especially older ones with thick walls. Or one that doesn't get cell reception outside either. ??? was that difficult?

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