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Credit Suisse’s $17B of Risky Bonds Are Now Worthless

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Re: Credit Suisse’s $17B of Risky Bonds Are Now Worthless

#71

Post by pram »

snapplebobapple wrote: post #62
KarlKemp wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well don’t keep us guessing! What’s the secret cabal owning the financial system, according to your research, and how do they manage to own both the „serious“ business and the funny pages?

My vote goes to the Rockefellers (who are actually psychic mushroom people first discovered in caves about halfway into the hollow earth. This is why they use that last name. The first people they encountered referred to them as "them rock fellers" before they were psychically controlled.)

Those are the Fraggles, common misconception.

Re: Credit Suisse’s $17B of Risky Bonds Are Now Worthless

#72

Post by notahacker »

georgeplusplus wrote: post #67
adhesive_wombat wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ledger is verified but how do you know the gold is really there?

You ask for the counterparty to send it. Historically, the dollar was the ledger and redeemable in gold. Which the USA printed a lot more than it said it did. A ledger would stop this kind of abuse.

The ledger wouldn't stop the abuse at all. USDT is a ledger. The ledger didn't change at all when Binance's public position moved from "every USDT is backed with an actual dollar" to "well we have a reserve of dollars and some... er ... other assets", and nothing about the ledger tells you if Binance ever had the dollars in the first place.

Re: Credit Suisse’s $17B of Risky Bonds Are Now Worthless

#73

Post by snapplebobapple »

pram wrote: post #71
snapplebobapple wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My vote goes to the Rockefellers (who are actually psychic mushroom people first discovered in caves about halfway into the hollow earth. This is why they use that last name. The first people they encountered referred to them as "them rock fellers" before they were psychically controlled.)

Those are the Fraggles, common misconception.

Careful, this place can't take a joke, even when it is hilarious.

Re: Credit Suisse’s $17B of Risky Bonds Are Now Worthless

#74

Post by hbrn »

qwytw wrote: post #12
codetrotter wrote: post #3

And they wonder why we want to replace the traditional banking system. Here’s a hint: it’s not got anything to do with either “metaverse” bs nor with silly “NFT” JPEGs. Read the original Bitcoin whitepaper. https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Using an ultra deflationary token like bitcoin as a global currency would literally be the most stupid thing that ever happened in human history. Basically people who held significant amounts of bitcoin from early on would become billionaires (if not trillionaires...) by having provided zero value to the economy. As awful and unfair what we have currently is it's still several magnitudes superior in almost any concei…

I never really understood this reasoning, is it just simple envy?

Ok, so a few folks will amass a lot of wealth based on luck and not merit. Those already exist in current financial system, both locally and globally. Plenty of dictators have control over natural resources worth trillions.

There are numerous issues with bitcoin replacing USD, I'm just surprised why you think that few nerds becoming billionaires is a major one.

Re: Credit Suisse’s $17B of Risky Bonds Are Now Worthless

#75

Post by notsosec »

KarlKemp wrote: post #30
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #14

If the casino always wins, why is it so hard to identify who owns this[1] casino? [1] Not CS, but the entire "serious" financial system.

Well don’t keep us guessing! What’s the secret cabal owning the financial system, according to your research, and how do they manage to own both the „serious“ business and the funny pages?

It's not secret and it's not a cabal.

It's the group of people who benefit from a collusion with governments (by funding politicians campaigns) to get constant protection of their profits through systematic, de facto or explicit, bailouts by central banks, and more generally complacent regulations.

Abolish central banking and have a gold-backed financial system and they mostly disappear. You can't cheat with gold. People who say it's fundamentally unstable and the cause for deflation or whatever have so far not demonstrated that the alternative is any better.

Re: Credit Suisse’s $17B of Risky Bonds Are Now Worthless

#76

Post by fellellor »

yevpats wrote: post #22
qwytw wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using an ultra deflationary token like bitcoin as a global currency would literally be the most stupid thing that ever happened in human history. Basically people who held significant amounts of bitcoin from early on would become billionaires (if not trillionaires...) by having provided zero value to the economy. As awful and unfair what we have currently is it's still several magnitudes superior in almost any concei…

I don't have a side in the whole crypto vs fiat war but I do wonder why HN is so anti-crypto (maybe it's just classic position speak). Re the "people who held significant amounts of bitcoin from early on would become billionaires by having provided zero value" - isn't that true to people who held Google stock very early on? what was their value? Also, I would say inflationary token vs deflationary token is not clear…

I too think the unfairness is the problem here with the acceptability of Bitcoin as reserve currency. But not in the way the parent proposes. Bitcoin as reserve currency is such a zero sum outcome, unlike stock market investment gains, because the no coiners loose everything and the maxis gain everything that the others lost.

People who held google stock early actually provided a lot of value to society. By either investing in or working for a company that radically transformed how people use the Internet. You can argue early investors into Bitcoin are the same but in a much lesser way than if you aren’t Satoshi and didn’t contribute to the core development or advocacy of Bitcoin. Most hodlers just bought it and held on and did nothing.

The unfairness of this is so rankling that it’s hard to imagine that Bitcoin as reserve currency settles into an accepted equilibrium without significant violence on a global scale.

Re: Credit Suisse’s $17B of Risky Bonds Are Now Worthless

#77

Post by fellellor »

lowkey wrote: post #46
HashBasher wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is not deflationary. It just has a fixed supply. People who held bitcoin from early on supported the growth of bitcoin by holding up it's value through the wild gut-wrenching rollercoaster ride that it has gone through. They should be rewarded for the risk they're taking on, having invested significant amount of their net worth in the face of harsh criticism such as yours. Bitcoin and "crypto" are completely…

To nitpick, Bitcoin doesn’t currently have a fixed supply. It has a supply cap that takes effect sometime in 2140. Bitcoin currently inflates by 6.25 BTC every ~10 minutes. For the record, I agree that early Bitcoiners took an incredible risk on a highly volatile asset and they should be rewarded for such. As I see it, this latest banking crisis is showing the world that there is more than one type of risk. Bitcoin h…

Haven’t they already been rewarded for it? The magic Internet money is worth more than 20k USD, whereas it started out at 0.

Re: Credit Suisse’s $17B of Risky Bonds Are Now Worthless

#78

Post by csomar »

lowkey wrote: post #46
HashBasher wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is not deflationary. It just has a fixed supply. People who held bitcoin from early on supported the growth of bitcoin by holding up it's value through the wild gut-wrenching rollercoaster ride that it has gone through. They should be rewarded for the risk they're taking on, having invested significant amount of their net worth in the face of harsh criticism such as yours. Bitcoin and "crypto" are completely…

To nitpick, Bitcoin doesn’t currently have a fixed supply. It has a supply cap that takes effect sometime in 2140. Bitcoin currently inflates by 6.25 BTC every ~10 minutes. For the record, I agree that early Bitcoiners took an incredible risk on a highly volatile asset and they should be rewarded for such. As I see it, this latest banking crisis is showing the world that there is more than one type of risk. Bitcoin h…

The big revelation is that deposits in a bank have two risks actually: A counter-party risk as you mentioned, but also a market risk. Inflation was/is in the double digit across the Euro and US economies. And that's for the government (CPI) numbers.

People never considered these risks before. A bank is a bank is a bank. And in the developed world, inflation is low. Now you have a situation where both narratives are being challenged. The system is under lots of strain.

Re: Credit Suisse’s $17B of Risky Bonds Are Now Worthless

#79

Post by csomar »

Nasrudith wrote: post #37
HashBasher wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is not deflationary. It just has a fixed supply. People who held bitcoin from early on supported the growth of bitcoin by holding up it's value through the wild gut-wrenching rollercoaster ride that it has gone through. They should be rewarded for the risk they're taking on, having invested significant amount of their net worth in the face of harsh criticism such as yours. Bitcoin and "crypto" are completely…

A fixed supply with growing markets is deflationary. Cryptocurrency advocates wrongly insist thid is a good thing out of motivated reasoning.

This has little effects. Inflationary systems where promoted by governments so that they can inflate their debt away and print money as needed.

You can have a deflationary system and the effects will be the same. People will always be looking for a stable store of value and a yield with variable risk. Instead of increasing/decreasing the money supply through interest rate, the price of Bitcoin goes up and down.

Solving a stable store of value problem (through Bitcoin, completely decentralized) is a 100bn/1Trillion market. And also will be a legitimate use case for Bitcoin and Cryptocurrencies.

Re: Credit Suisse’s $17B of Risky Bonds Are Now Worthless

#80

Post by csomar »

peyton wrote: post #48
justinzollars wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The competing system is BRICS + Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran, Turkey and Pakistan. They will probably transact in gold - certainly not bitcoin. In the West, if there is a collapse of our system, they will make bitcoin illegal. I just don't see it as anything other than a short term speculation.

In the West, if there is a risk of collapse, it will be illegal to take your money out.

Can the exit tax, then, be considered as a partial collapse (or a hint of it)?
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