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California cancels salmon fishing season

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Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#71

Post by myshpa »

BurningFrog wrote: post #64
myshpa wrote: post #15

It's not just the draughts. https://www.seaspiracy.org/facts "Species like thresher, bull and hammerhead sharks have lost up to 80-99% of their populations in the last two decades. Seabird populations have declined by 70% since the 1950's. Studies estimate that up to 40% of all marine life caught is thrown overboard as bycatch. Six out of seven species of sea turtles are either threatened or endangered due to fishing…

This is a classic Tragedy Of The Commons. Establish ownable fishing rights per ocean areas, and regular greed will solve this problem.

We've heard similar arguments in post-soviet countries regarding farming land - private land owners will take better care of the land, will protect the wildlife, won't poison their own land, etc.

Privatization didn't help ... small owners rent their land to the big ag, wildlife is still being decimated, land degradation accelerated, and now there are new deserts in central Europe (last week there was a sand storm in Hungary and Slovakia).

Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#72

Post by bradleyjg »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #43
bradleyjg wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CA needs to rethink its water law. Parts of the agribusiness industry are at least providing decent bang for the gallon. But the fact that there are fields of low value alfalfa being watered tells you the incentives are all screwed up.

Isn’t it almonds, too?

Almonds use a lot of water but they are also quite valuable. Maybe we get there eventually, but to start we just need to make enough of a price signal come through that the really low value + high water usage stuff stops.

Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#73

Post by jandrewrogers »

bradleyjg wrote: post #18
myshpa wrote: post #15

It's not just the draughts. https://www.seaspiracy.org/facts "Species like thresher, bull and hammerhead sharks have lost up to 80-99% of their populations in the last two decades. Seabird populations have declined by 70% since the 1950's. Studies estimate that up to 40% of all marine life caught is thrown overboard as bycatch. Six out of seven species of sea turtles are either threatened or endangered due to fishing…

Studies estimate that up to 40% of all marine life caught is thrown overboard as bycatch. This is a fairly important part. It’s one thing to fish and eat. It’s another thing to fish and destroy. Trawling is the strip mining of the sea.

In the US, you are required to discard bycatch under penalty of law. As a professional fisherman you aren't even allowed to eat it. They don't want to discard it, they are required to.

The regulation nominally exists to disincentivize bycatch but anecdotally it seems to just ensure that bycatch becomes waste.

Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#74

Post by belorn »

Here in Sweden we have major issues with hydroelectric power preventing salmons from reaching their spawning areas. Some rivers have limited or event stopped fishing because there just aren't enough that survive the trip past the power stations (that assuming there is a path past them for the fish to use).

Is there similar issues in California?

Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#75

Post by amrocha »

myshpa wrote: post #65
jterrys wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But that animals are fellow beings, a lot like us in many ways. I didn't want pain, or someone to kill me, so I figured they didn't either. I respect your noble pursuit of not eating meat, and I have encountered arguments similar to yours enough times now that I feel compelled to respond in genuine kindness as someone who does like to eat meat (within "reason"). Animals are benignly cruel to each other beyond your i…

> Animals are benignly cruel to each other beyond your imagination https://yourveganfallacyis.com/en/animals-eat-animals > They have a relatively peaceful, predation, free life after which you consume them https://yourveganfallacyis.com/en/humane-meat

They're not fallacies, they're fundamental disagreements.

1. No, animals do not have rights.

2. No, animal lives are not morally equal to human lives.

3. No, eating animals is not cruel.

If you disagree with these then that's fine, we can have a discussion about that, but you have to understand that not everyone agrees with you on these points otherwise you'll become that annoying vegan that pushes their beliefs on everyone.

Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#76

Post by myshpa »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #57
yesenadam wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes me ashamed to be human. Reading stuff like that, and thinking about what we do to cows, sheep, lambs, chickens, etc, it dawned on me a while ago that humans have no right to treat animals like they're just a bunch of cells to be treated however we want, like a serial killer treats their victims. But that animals are fellow beings, a lot like us in many ways. I didn't want pain, or someone to kill me, so I fi…

The meat I eat comes from a ten minute bike ride's distance from my house. The heavily-processed vegetable-based "product" aggressively marketed to you has been shipped halfway round the world, having been farmed using just about the least sustainable farming practices imaginable. Which one is harming the environment?

Transport is a small contributor to emissions. For most food products, it accounts for less than 10%, and it’s much smaller for the largest GHG emitters. In beef from beef herds, it’s 0.5%.

Very little food is air-freighted; it accounts for only 0.16% of food miles.

Many of the foods people assume to come by air are actually transported by boat – avocados and almonds are prime examples. Shipping one kilogram of avocados from Mexico to the United Kingdom would generate ... only around 8% of avocados’ total footprint. Even when shipped at great distances, its emissions are much less than locally-produced animal products.

https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local

Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#77

Post by [deleted] »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #57
yesenadam wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes me ashamed to be human. Reading stuff like that, and thinking about what we do to cows, sheep, lambs, chickens, etc, it dawned on me a while ago that humans have no right to treat animals like they're just a bunch of cells to be treated however we want, like a serial killer treats their victims. But that animals are fellow beings, a lot like us in many ways. I didn't want pain, or someone to kill me, so I fi…

The meat I eat comes from a ten minute bike ride's distance from my house. The heavily-processed vegetable-based "product" aggressively marketed to you has been shipped halfway round the world, having been farmed using just about the least sustainable farming practices imaginable. Which one is harming the environment?

[deleted]

Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#78

Post by ipaddr »

mrguyorama wrote: post #8
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #3

> Last year, 196,000 adult fish were expected to return to the Sacramento River to spawn but only 60,000 showed up. 70% decline If your business depends on this fishing season, what do you do? Go bartend?

In my state, all the lobster fishing people have a "co op" to jointly decide how to manage the public resource of the fish in our waters so that they can come together and make the kind of conservation decisions together, and create some force to prevent anyone from defecting and catching everything in a down year. This gives them more stability year to year and a little bit of possible price fixing. Just don't call…

How do they stop rogue operators?

Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#79

Post by 8bitsrule »

belorn wrote: post #74

Here in Sweden we have major issues with hydroelectric power preventing salmons from reaching their spawning areas. Some rivers have limited or event stopped fishing because there just aren't enough that survive the trip past the power stations (that assuming there is a path past them for the fish to use). Is there similar issues in California?

belorn, this has long been a big problem in all of the US west. This article starts with a good, quick history of that problem. https://pcffa.org/dams-and-salmon/

Here's another about the problem with Columbia River (Washington) dams. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jun/09/salmon-f...

Re: California cancels salmon fishing season

#80

Post by Melatonic »

kposehn wrote: post #2

I've been Salmon fishing in California since I can remember. There are few things I love more than being on the water going for Kings as the sun comes up. I'm really bummed we won't have a season, but having more fish in the future is worth the short term cost.

I have heard from people who do love fishing that getting a decently cheap flight to Alaska is totally worth it specifically for Salmon
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