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Is My MacBook Pro Always Listening?

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Re: Is My MacBook Pro Always Listening?

#71

Post by pavel_lishin »

calloc wrote: post #69
lloeki wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "if you're sure your hardware hasn't been tampered with, this should physically disconnect the microphone." Why so? Most soundcards merely detect an impedance change and flick a bit to switch from internal microphone to line-in but you can have full control of that bit by software. That's actually what the prefpane does: even with something plugged in the line in, one can switch back to the internal microphone as a…

You can still insert a barrel jack, this time with 4 rings instead of 3 at which point the microphone is disabled. For example, Apple headphones for your iPhone can be plugged in and used for that purpose...

Only if you cut the microphone off, of course. :)

Re: Is My MacBook Pro Always Listening?

#72

Post by r00fus »

ddagradi wrote: post #65
mickael1 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 13 inch Macbook Pro, just like the Air, does not have a dedicated audio input. It's one of those mobile phone headphone/microphone combo jacks.

The Macbook Air does not have a combo port (currently). Just a headphone jack. I used dedicated to mean "includes specific hardware to handle this use case". Sorry for the ambiguity. The consumer product line continues to have fewer fine-grained controls than Pro products, so nothing has really changed here.

Not sure if you're correct - look at the specs page [1]... it does support the Apple headset with combo microphone/headphones port.

[1] http://www.apple.com/macbookair/specs.html

Re: Is My MacBook Pro Always Listening?

#73

Post by napierzaza »

lloeki wrote: post #42
jwr wrote: post #37

Every microphone in every powered device must be considered as listening if you are serious about security at all. So what if the panel actually even disabled the mic preamp on the board? You could have a program/virus/trojan that silently re-enabled it behind your back, without you knowing. So I'd say this is nothing to be concerned about, because every device you own potentially "listens" with its microphones all t…

> "if you're sure your hardware hasn't been tampered with, this should physically disconnect the microphone." Why so? Most soundcards merely detect an impedance change and flick a bit to switch from internal microphone to line-in but you can have full control of that bit by software. That's actually what the prefpane does: even with something plugged in the line in, one can switch back to the internal microphone as a…

Actually, many barrel jacks have an actual switch (springy metal) that disconnects something when you have a headphone jack plugged in. I don't know about modern ones, but it's not about impedance.

Re: Is My MacBook Pro Always Listening?

#74

Post by tlb »

Reducing the volume in the control panel doesn't add security. Microphone input volume is settable from user level without special permissions, so any software that was going to listen can control the volume.

Re: Is My MacBook Pro Always Listening?

#75

Post by ddagradi »

r00fus wrote: post #72
ddagradi wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Macbook Air does not have a combo port (currently). Just a headphone jack. I used dedicated to mean "includes specific hardware to handle this use case". Sorry for the ambiguity. The consumer product line continues to have fewer fine-grained controls than Pro products, so nothing has really changed here.

Not sure if you're correct - look at the specs page [1]... it does support the Apple headset with combo microphone/headphones port. [1] http://www.apple.com/macbookair/specs.html

Interesting! The language on the MBP specs says "Combined headphone/line in", whereas the MBA specs say "Headphone port". But you are correct: my headphones register as an audio input on the Macbook Air. I wonder if it's a very specific exception, or just an intentionially undisclosed feature (why?).

Re: Is My MacBook Pro Always Listening?

#76

Post by jrockway »

beambot wrote: post #70
jrockway wrote: post #29

If you are really worried about this, I recommend surgery. I used to have this Windows box at work that would always make sounds for no reason, even though the sound was muted. The solution was to open it up and physically disconnect the speaker. Never made a sound again. If you don't want your computer to be used as a listening device, first try adjusting your tinfoil hat. If you're still worried, open it up and rem…

Actually... some ceramic capacitors are piezoelectric [1] and thus could (conceivably) be used as low-fidelity audio sensors. Better rip out all the capacitors too -- just in case. ;-) That would be one crazy covert communications channel. Wonder if there are any security papers exploring that...? [1] http://www.kemet.com/kemet/web/homepage/kfbk3.nsf/vaFeedback...

Yes, true. Pretty much any passive device can pick up sound. Two wires running next to each other is enough. A "microphone" is just a particularly well-engineered sound collection device.

Re: Is My MacBook Pro Always Listening?

#78

Post by stcredzero »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #71
calloc wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still insert a barrel jack, this time with 4 rings instead of 3 at which point the microphone is disabled. For example, Apple headphones for your iPhone can be plugged in and used for that purpose...

Only if you cut the microphone off, of course. :)

You can buy a 4 ring 1/8" plug adaptor for headphones. Some of these adaptors come with no mic.

Re: Is My MacBook Pro Always Listening?

#79

Post by sounds »

joshzayin wrote: post #58
jamii wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A nice intermediate step is to attach a small light directly to the mic/camera, so that the light is on whenever they are being used.

They already do this for the camera, though I'm not sure if it's hardware or software.

It's firmware, loaded on boot and replaceable by someone with root permissions.

So it's not a trivial thing to bypass, but it's not secure. Use a sticker or post-it note if you're paranoid.

Re: Is My MacBook Pro Always Listening?

#80

Post by line-in »

You might think of it this way:

You can start with an OS where everything, more than you will ever possibly need, is turned on. Myriad drivers are present and all are activated without any user intervention.

Or you can start with an OS where everything is turned off by default. It's up to you to choose the drivers and turn things on. The user has to make the first move.

In the former scenario, you will unlikely ever have full control of security (if that's what you are aiming for). It's too complex to think of everything that could be turned on and too account for every driver. You will never have full control.

In the later case, you will be able to achieve a better sense of control. Not to mention you will understand your OS better.

In sum, laziness/convenience cedes control to someone else, whether it's Apple, their "approved" business partners or some miscreant.

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