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We should teach all our kids to code

kernelmag.com

71–80 of 81 posts

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#71

I'm not having children, but I have two nephews and a niece, and when they are old enough to read and use a computer without breaking them, I'm giving them each a netbook preinstalled with ubuntu, various programming tools, and some kind of video chat software so that they have access to me to ask questions at any time. I want them all to know this kind of thing, regardless of anything else. Plus it will make me the…

You should look into the Fedora Sugar on a Stick distro.

http://spins.fedoraproject.org/soas/

It has tons of great interactive python programming tools and projects, plus all the hours are logged and you can review how much time the kids spent on each project.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#72
I think the author has not met enough variety of people.

Yes, all schools should have a fantastic Computer Science department. And it should be more than CS, it should be "doing fun stuff with computers". However, there is a very large segment of the population who cannot program.

I've got a friend who's quite smart. She's charming and extremely capable at her job. I discovered that she has absolutely no ability to think in three dimensions. She cannot follow even a very simple series of motions. She parked her car near a post, came out, got confused, and destroyed the whole side of her car because she couldn't work out the spatial problem to get out.

I've known people who simply cannot grasp calculus. They're interesting people who offer value in the world. Calculus is a fundamental and wonderful thing to know, but that doesn't mean everyone can or should learn it.

I love programming, but I respect the variety of humanity enough to understand that it should not be mandatory.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#73

I think the author has not met enough variety of people. Yes, all schools should have a fantastic Computer Science department. And it should be more than CS, it should be "doing fun stuff with computers". However, there is a very large segment of the population who cannot program. I've got a friend who's quite smart. She's charming and extremely capable at her job. I discovered that she has absolutely no ability to t…

[deleted]

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#74

I think the author has not met enough variety of people. Yes, all schools should have a fantastic Computer Science department. And it should be more than CS, it should be "doing fun stuff with computers". However, there is a very large segment of the population who cannot program. I've got a friend who's quite smart. She's charming and extremely capable at her job. I discovered that she has absolutely no ability to t…

You have no idea whether the author has "met enough variety of people." You have no idea if people are innately able to program, learn calculus, or "think in three dimensions" (btw - driving is a 2d problem). I don't. You don't. No one does. We do not have a framework for discussing the fundamental (genetic) basis of human intelligence. We do not understand even its most basic components. Some people seem to have "good memories" or be "fast at computation" but that's about all we can actually, honestly, meaningfully say. Culture is so ridiculously complicated and so powerful that it's impossible to impossible to distinguish between what is innate and what is imprinted. The fact that basically no one is able to predict the intellectual abilities of future humans is an indication of this (e.g. what would a mathematician from the 19th century say about the "fundamental" mathematical abilities of his fellow humans?).

The point of the article is that coding is in some sense a core/intrinsic skill. That anything you do is actually deeply tied to coding in the sense that "something you do" (technology, in the general sense) is equivalent to "algorithm." Weaving is coding. Playing a game is coding. Building a house is coding. Painting a picture is coding. Proving a theorem is coding (Curry-Howard Isomorphism). Sure, they're different, more intuitive, weird types of coding, but the fact that you can't see that they -are- coding implies a limitation on your ability to abstract the concept of "coding" sufficiently.

The fact is that coding is a deeply human activity, and that by understanding coding we are really understanding ourselves and the fundamental means by which we -collectively- understand reality. The fact is that we need some shared understanding of ourselves, of our logical facilities, of the basis of our ability to produce and thrive and know how to interact with the universe. Without a shared framework, communication is useless/impossible.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#75
A few people have mentioned simple computers and BASIC.

They may be interested in these links.

(http://hackaday.com/2012/01/23/maximite-harkens-back-to-the-...)

(http://geoffg.net/maximite.html)

> The Maximite is a small and versatile computer running a full featured BASIC interpreter with 128K of working memory.

It will work with a standard VGA monitor and PC compatible keyboard and because the Maximite has its own built in SD memory card and BASIC language you need nothing more to start writing and running BASIC programs.

The Maximite also has also 20 input/output lines which can be independently configured as analog inputs, digital inputs or digital outputs. You can measure voltage, frequencies, detect switch closure, etc and respond by turning on lights, closing relays, etc - all under control of your BASIC program.

The design and the firmware including the BASIC interpreter is free to download and use.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#76

I think the author has not met enough variety of people. Yes, all schools should have a fantastic Computer Science department. And it should be more than CS, it should be "doing fun stuff with computers". However, there is a very large segment of the population who cannot program. I've got a friend who's quite smart. She's charming and extremely capable at her job. I discovered that she has absolutely no ability to t…

Are you sure it's not just that you or someone else is not good enough at explaining it? wink

Seriously, though, while I'm of the opinion that people learn different things at different speeds, I have yet to encounter someone who was simply unable to grasp a mathematical concept or a concept in CS (not counting some people I know with debiliating mental illnesses).

The trick is to break it into smaller and smaller chunks of logic until people get it. As long as these people are capable of basic arithmetic, I think it's possible to make them 'get it'. And yes, teaching can be very hard.

Having said all that, I do agree with ^ that programming should not be mandatory.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#77
post #35

There's a couple of points about modern programming systems. BASIC was interpreted, and not object orientated. You'd have a book, and that book would contain every keyword, with a description of what it did, and some example code. So you'd buy magazines or a book, you'd type out the programs in those books, you'd debug what you'd typed, you'd modify what you'd done, and then you'd start creating new programs. You'd w…

>Normally programming is the design process, with pseudo-code and flowcharts and jackson structured programming charts and etc, while coding is just taking that and writing it in some language.

That sounds more like software engineering to me. Most people do indeed use the words 'programming' and 'coding' interchangeably.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#78
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't think kids should be taught to read if they don't have an interest in it? What about math? Computing is a basic skill on the same level as math and literacy. It's only getting more important. You don't have to be an aspiring author for reading and writing to be relevant to your life. And you don't have to be an aspiring software engineer for basic computation and programming ability to be important in to…

"Computing is a basic skill on the same level as math and literacy" Its actually not as basic of a skill as math and literacy. Proof of this is that it takes math and literacy as foundational skills to then program. I agree that programming is a good skill but please don't pitch coding as being at the same level as basic literacy. The difference between someone who is illiterate and someone who is illiterate at progr…

It's getting less different over time.

Let's go back a few thousand years and ask Plato. Suppose he says "Literacy is not as basic of a skill as speaking and remembering. Proof is that it takes speaking and memory as foundational skills to read and write."

He's probably right for 500 BC. You could get by just fine without reading or writing. Literacy was for specialized purposes such as government record keeping. But society grew more sophisticated, to the point where, in the last century or two, it's hard to get a job or function on a basic level in society without being literate.

Well the world turns quicker and quicker. It used to be that one could get by on brute force mental work. But a mere 70 years after the first gigantic electronic computing machines, computational automation is becoming a necessary part of our lives. It may be possible to avoid it now, but it's getting less possible every day.

Abstract computation is a new way of processing and understanding information. It is the next stage in the evolution of information processing, beginning with spoken and then written language. It isn't on the same level as speaking and reading yet, but it's getting there, and we won't do our children any favors by letting them think it's optional.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#79
post #74

I think the author has not met enough variety of people. Yes, all schools should have a fantastic Computer Science department. And it should be more than CS, it should be "doing fun stuff with computers". However, there is a very large segment of the population who cannot program. I've got a friend who's quite smart. She's charming and extremely capable at her job. I discovered that she has absolutely no ability to t…

You have no idea whether the author has "met enough variety of people." You have no idea if people are innately able to program, learn calculus, or "think in three dimensions" (btw - driving is a 2d problem). I don't. You don't. No one does. We do not have a framework for discussing the fundamental (genetic) basis of human intelligence. We do not understand even its most basic components. Some people seem to have "go…

You have no idea whether the author has "met enough variety of people."

Which would be why I said, "I think..."

driving is a 2d problem

Uh. Okay, sure. I submit to you that it's possible I was referring to more than simply driving, and that your claim of driving being a 2d problem is just silly.

Programming is not a deeply human activity, not in the least. It involves strict, logical thinking, abstraction, and hierarchy. You disrespect the variety of humanity by claiming it to be intrinsic.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#80
post #76

I think the author has not met enough variety of people. Yes, all schools should have a fantastic Computer Science department. And it should be more than CS, it should be "doing fun stuff with computers". However, there is a very large segment of the population who cannot program. I've got a friend who's quite smart. She's charming and extremely capable at her job. I discovered that she has absolutely no ability to t…

Are you sure it's not just that you or someone else is not good enough at explaining it? wink Seriously, though, while I'm of the opinion that people learn different things at different speeds, I have yet to encounter someone who was simply unable to grasp a mathematical concept or a concept in CS (not counting some people I know with debiliating mental illnesses). The trick is to break it into smaller and smaller ch…

I have yet to encounter someone who was simply unable to grasp a mathematical concept or a concept in CS

I honestly don't know what to tell you. We can do the whole, "some people don't get it," "oh yeah, you just didn't teach it right," circular nonsense all day. I don't really care. All I can tell you is that I've been close to a number of people who would never be able to grasp programming in any meaningful way.

HN is an echo chamber of highly intelligent people, a disproportionate number of them in the Bay Area. I don't think HN participants have much of value to say about what people in general can and cannot do or understand.

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