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Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

wsj.com

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Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#71

Post by fidgewidge »

ttul wrote: post #21
tiahura wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they produce good science from this work. Other than securing more funding for more research, and trivia for virologists, what good science has come from this lab?

I’d have to re-listen to numerous TWiV podcasts, but here is a WaPo article discussing the quality of research at WIV: https://archive.ph/2020.01.31-185716/https://www.washingtonp... The Wuhan institute was celebrated as an improvement over the facilities at which dangerous viruses had previously been studied in China. The 2004 SARS outbreak originated in a lab: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC416634/

That WaPo article isn't about the quality of research at the WIV, it's an attempted (failed) debunking of the "fringe theory" that SARS-CoV-2 escaped from a lab. It has nothing to say on what good science they produced, perhaps because there wasn't any. Virology appears to spend its time fiddling with viruses based on the claim that doing so will help create vaccines, except, their work doesn't seem to have contributed to any vaccine development.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#72

Post by h2odragon »

IngvarLynn wrote: post #70
h2odragon wrote: post #5

[flagged]

My tangential hypothesis is: the virus was intentionally leaked prematurely to vaccinate humanity from real bio-weapon it would be developed into.

I like that one.

I kinda figure Omicron was a developed "vaccination version" of COVID.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#73

Post by fidgewidge »

denotational wrote: post #24

Without meaning to take a position either way, as a non-American, why does the Energy Department have a position on this? I’m aware that the Energy Department has sone degree of responsibility for the US nuclear arsenal, but even taking that into account, it seems out of scope.

The US government is so large and sprawling that essentially every agency concerns itself with every possible topic.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#74

Post by ttul »

denotational wrote: post #24

Without meaning to take a position either way, as a non-American, why does the Energy Department have a position on this? I’m aware that the Energy Department has sone degree of responsibility for the US nuclear arsenal, but even taking that into account, it seems out of scope.

Firstly, the DOE has expertise in areas such as biosecurity, biodefense, and biological threat reduction, and is responsible for managing national laboratories and supporting research in various scientific fields.

Just one example of this is the HAMMER facility at Hanford, WA, where DOE can train people to deal with all manner of disasters. https://hammer.hanford.gov/

Given the potential for a laboratory-originating virus to pose a significant threat to national security, the DOE may be interested in studying the origins of SARS-CoV-2 to better understand the risks associated with biosecurity and to inform its efforts to prevent and respond to biological threats.

Secondly, the DOE has collaborated with other agencies, such as the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), in conducting research related to COVID-19. The origins of SARS-CoV-2 are an important aspect of the COVID-19 pandemic and understanding its origins can inform public health responses and the development of treatments and vaccines.

Finally, the DOE has a stake in global scientific cooperation and the international research community. The origins of SARS-CoV-2 are an area of intense global interest, and understanding the virus's origins is important for future pandemic prevention efforts. By contributing to the scientific understanding of the virus's origins, the DOE can help to advance international collaboration and cooperation in addressing global health threats.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#75

Post by kelipso »

joenot443 wrote: post #33
michaelgrosner2 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> American media Huh? The previous President of the US frequently called it the "China Virus". > GOP conspiracy to bring down Biden Biden wasn't President for the first year of the pandemic, not sure how that works out. > Are American progressives so fragile in their identity that they avoid agreeing with conservatives for fear of guilt by association? I personally don't care whether the virus was man-made or natural…

>I personally don't care whether the virus was man-made or natural That's really surprising to me, because in my opinion the answer truly does matter, and sticking my head in the sand feels defeatist. I suppose that's a difference of opinions, though.

I guess it's a natural human reaction when something reflects badly on you. I never cared about it anyway, it doesn't really matter, etc.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#76

Post by fidgewidge »

ttul wrote: post #18
acheron wrote: post #16

[flagged]

What will make this information dangerous is if people misconstrue “lab leak” to mean “human designed”. The report specifically says it was not from a bioweapons program. I’m sure they took pains to verify that because the implications of THAT conclusion would be explosive.

No, that's not the most dangerous interpretation.

The most dangerous interpretation of "lab leak" is the one backed by the most evidence - that they were artificially enhancing viruses so they could develop vaccines against them. The Pfizer guy who got caught on camera by Project Veritas said they were considering doing the same thing.

Selling people vaccines for viruses the scientists created specifically to create vaccines for, is about the worst conflict of interest you can imagine and one with global implications, not just for US/China relations.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#77

Post by ttul »

ironyman wrote: post #4

I strongly suspect that the three-letter agencies have good intel to conclusively show that this is the case, but they have decided to hold back on it for the sake of US-China relations. https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-releases-repor...

One of those agencies - the FBI - has long held that Covid-19 is the result of a lab leak: “The FBI pre­vi­ously came to the con­clu­sion that the pan­demic was likely the re­sult of a lab leak in 2021 with “mod­er­ate con­fi-dence” and still holds to this view.” (from the WSJ article)

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#79

Post by ttul »

fidgewidge wrote: post #76
ttul wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What will make this information dangerous is if people misconstrue “lab leak” to mean “human designed”. The report specifically says it was not from a bioweapons program. I’m sure they took pains to verify that because the implications of THAT conclusion would be explosive.

No, that's not the most dangerous interpretation. The most dangerous interpretation of "lab leak" is the one backed by the most evidence - that they were artificially enhancing viruses so they could develop vaccines against them. The Pfizer guy who got caught on camera by Project Veritas said they were considering doing the same thing. Selling people vaccines for viruses the scientists created specifically to create…

Gain-of-function research serves a legitimate purpose, but if this lean stemmed from GoF work, that is not apparent from the SARA CoV-2 genome. See my link elsewhere in the comments to a TWiV podcast episode that discusses the lab leak hypothesis, and the analysis of the genome sequence suggesting it is not the result of human engineering work.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#80

Post by ttul »

someuser54541 wrote: post #51

I'm fairly confident posts like these are artificially weighted to fall off the front page..that seems to happen when a COVID related post gets popular on HN. This post has more points and comments than the majority of stuff on the front page but it's currently on page 3. I've casually noticed something similar over the past ~18 months with posts related to COVID.

I find it interesting that this story was picked up by the WSJ and has not yet hit the NYTimes. The WSJ editorial staff is well known to have a conservative bias, but their newsroom editors are considered to be quite centrist.

That NYT doesn’t think this story is newsworthy is itself newsworthy.

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