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World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

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Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#71

Post by jimmygrapes »

quacked wrote: post #16

I don't like the Four Day Work Week because most of the people who are allowed to experiment with it are working on bullshit. I'm not a big Graeber fan, but I emphatically agree with his idea that the majority of actual hours worked inside the continental US are largely useless make-work in order to justify the existence of a monied consumer class. Such a huge amount of the actual work that needs to be done so that w…

Fully agreed, but please don't discount the domestic workforce keeping things going alongside those other categories of workers. Some of us work long hours and extra days not because we are abused by a parody of a capitalist boss/system, but because the work needs to be done and we take pride in supporting the progress of humanity (for better or worse). That plumbing issue, that damaging weather event, that medical emergency, that slip, trip or fall, that electricity outage, that vandalism repair, that train derailment, that earthquake, that dirty diaper, that messy suicide, that produce delivery, that firebreak, that water break, that pitbull attack, that abscess bust, that gas leak, that sandwich you ordered online; someone is around to handle these emergent events. Some of us need to be around to take care of the rest of those who are spending 12 to 72 hours (or more) contributing to or experiencing these events.

Please don't forget us.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#72

Post by greedo »

Philip-J-Fry wrote: post #62

I could see quite a few companies reaching for this over pay rises. Considering inflation right now, it may make sense to suggest a 4 day working week at their existing pay versus offering an inflation beating pay rise.

Haha, "inflation beating pay raise."

Our VP of HR said "If we were to give you raises when inflation goes up, we'd have to cut your salary when it goes down."

Bitch, when was the last time we had significant deflation?

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#73

Post by nerdbert »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #11
kennywinker wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on most of the studies i’ve seen, at least for office/information jobs, that pay cut is unjustified. People mostly get as much done in 4 days as 5.

Usual counterpoint is that you're not being paid just for the things you get done, but also for availability - for being there when there's a need to handle something unexpected. This has real value to a business, so you being available for 80% of the time justifies some degree of pay cut.

If that's the case, then there should be a clear understanding that I am completely unavailable from the moment I leave the office for the day.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#74

Post by cbushko »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #32
kennywinker wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe for some jobs. But for the majority of software jobs? Not really.

I can't really tell. I mean, there's enough people on HN who say they do pair programming at work, and some even that they do whole projects almost exclusively in some sort of group coding sessions - to me this seems like a bizarro world, so what do I know about majority of software jobs? For me personally, every software job I've done so far - including both the ones where I was one of few (or even the only) coders…

I've only had successful paired programming in one situation and it was amazing. I believe it worked because we were friends and at the same knowledge level. In three days, we ripped through a project that should have taken a month. Our 'C' code was perfect because there was always someone looking at it in real time and catching the errors on the spot.

I do not think that I will ever encounter this level of productivity ever again.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#75

Post by skellington »

freitzkriesler2 wrote: post #38

Instead of 3 day weekends, why don't we go to a 6 day week? The only reason we have 7 days is because of the 7 classical planets.

When would God rest?

It's crazy when you think about how much of society is aligned around the totally arbitrary idea of a 7-day week. It would be hard to switch because so many things are aligned to it.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#76

Post by bhewes »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #13

When was a mathematician, I worked as hard as I could until I was mentally exhausted. I actually calculated how much I worked per week over a period of two years. On actual "hard thinking", like working through logic, I spent about 7 hours. There was another 7 hours writing and clarifying topics, and another 6 hours or so on classes, seminars (sort of like meetings, but productive). That gives a total of 20 hours per…

Coming from the sales side 9-5 is useful as people know when to find me, IE office hours. The service side of business, waiting on others.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#77

Post by nerdbert »

Invictus0 wrote: post #30
Vinnl wrote: post #28

It's the one thing I miss most from working for Dutch companies: being able to take a 20% pay cut and work 20% less. Theoretically, that should be a great deal for my employer: the extra rest, and just the way productive work is usually spread out across the week, means that my productivity definitely was not down 20% compared to now, so I was cheaper per hour. Yet even that culturally seems to be a hard sell in a ma…

You get healthcare 7 days a week but only work for 4. Salary is only one component of compensation

Thanks for your argument that health care should not be connected in any way to employment.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#78

Post by QuercusMax »

skellington wrote: post #69
xyzelement wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you make the same interpretation when companies cut 20% of the workforce instead?

There is no doubt that most companies (and the government) could cut 20% with no effect on their productivity. It's just no practical to ride the razors edge of leanness and it also would probably harm morale. Twitter cut 80% of it's workforce and is becoming MORE productive.

They cut the group responsible for responding to pictures of children being abused. I don't want to work at a place that considers this "more productive".

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-20/australian-twitter-st...

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#79

Post by quacked »

aantix wrote: post #54
quacked wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether or not something is 'work' has no bearing on whether or not it's bullshit. I am in perfect agreement that one hour of useful work requires many hours of equally useful thought-work.

You have the advantage of calling something bullshit after the fact. Track your BS Meyer before the initiatives take place. Before you can see the outcomes whether something was impactful or not. Feel free to unleash your predictive capacity on the world.

Okay, here's one: every single fast-food restaurant that uses unhealthy derivatives to create its "food", and all the work that goes into it, is bullshit, and if the entire industry was wiped off the face of the earth tomorrow society would immediately, measurably improve.
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