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Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment

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Re: Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment

#71

Post by mshake2 »

flandish wrote: post #67
mshake2 wrote: post #17

>“Smoke and chemicals from the train, that’s the only thing that can cause it, because it doesn’t just happen out of nowhere,” Holzer says. “The chemicals that we’re being told are safe in the air, that’s definitely not safe for the animals … or people.” >“All the readings we’ve been recording in the community have been at normal concentrations, normal background, what you would find in almost any community operating…

A corporation always lies. Start there. See where the liability is, then see who they’ve donated to…

The EPA isn't a corporation?

Re: Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment

#72

Post by KennyBlanken »

m4x wrote: post #33
mshake2 wrote: post #17

>“Smoke and chemicals from the train, that’s the only thing that can cause it, because it doesn’t just happen out of nowhere,” Holzer says. “The chemicals that we’re being told are safe in the air, that’s definitely not safe for the animals … or people.” >“All the readings we’ve been recording in the community have been at normal concentrations, normal background, what you would find in almost any community operating…

The widespread reports of smells in the air, headaches, dead fish and other animals makes it hard to believe that "all the readings are at normal concentrations". Although what they actually said is that all the readings they've recorded are normal. The most disconcerting thing is that vinyl chloride is a carcinogen, so there may be many people who have been exposed to enough to give them cancer but who won't know ab…

It's not just vinyl chloride in the air. It's hydrogen chloride and phosgene, because they decided to set the vinyl chloride on fire to get rid of it.

Phosgene was a chemical weapon in WW1 and was especially problematic because, drumroll please, it's heavier than air and doesn't dissipate readily. That's one reason they roundabout mention checking air in people's homes.

Air readings could be manipulated simply by taking them from the tops of hills, or upwind, or even a relatively low altitude via plane. People who don't know phosgene is heavier than air would not realize what was going on.

Re: Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment

#73

Post by KennyBlanken »

orange_joe wrote: post #23

It's worth mentioning the backdrop of this is the current drive toward PSR (precision scheduled railroading), which has meant overworking train engineers with improved "efficiencies" through extremely long trains, and overworked employees. This has greatly increased the value of the train companies on the stock market, but at the expense of the workers (this came to a head a few months ago with pending labor strikes…

Pressuring engineers, dispatchers and yard crews to stick to increasingly tight schedules, especially while understaffed, is exactly how you end up with more incidents.

They don't care. The costs are minimal compared to the profits, the bad PR can be massaged, etc.

Edit: also forgot that the president and both halves of congress have clearly telegraphed "full speed ahead" after the recent nonsense around the railroad union strikes. These workers aren't even getting time off for sick days or family emergencies (the latter of which is almost certainly a violation of the Family Medical Leave Act.)

Re: Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment

#74

Post by sn41 »

bamboozled wrote: post #8

So this is Palestine, in America ?

There is a town called Elkader in Iowa. I thought it was something to do with Elks. In fact, someone else also made this error, since there are nearby towns called Elk Run etc.

Turns out, it was named after the famous Algerian revolutionary, Abd El Kader, who was widely respected in the West, including France, who he fought against:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emir_Abdelkader

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elkader,_Iowa

Re: Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment

#76

Post by uxp100 »

fassssst wrote: post #24

It’s like people are living through "White Noise" by Don DeLillo. Thanks ChatGPT for helping me remember the book based on the general scenario: "White Noise" is a darkly comic novel that explores themes of death, consumerism, and technology. The story takes place in a small Midwestern town where a poisonous cloud, known as "The Nanny," is hanging over the area and threatening the lives of its residents. The protagon…

The nanny?

Anyway, the poisonous cloud is perhaps metaphorically hanging over the town, but only during a short section of the novel is there actually a cloud. Though maybe in terms of pages the cloud isn’t over the town very long, but several weeks pass?

This summary is mostly right? I guess?

Re: Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment

#77

Post by amluto »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #72
m4x wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The widespread reports of smells in the air, headaches, dead fish and other animals makes it hard to believe that "all the readings are at normal concentrations". Although what they actually said is that all the readings they've recorded are normal. The most disconcerting thing is that vinyl chloride is a carcinogen, so there may be many people who have been exposed to enough to give them cancer but who won't know ab…

It's not just vinyl chloride in the air. It's hydrogen chloride and phosgene, because they decided to set the vinyl chloride on fire to get rid of it. Phosgene was a chemical weapon in WW1 and was especially problematic because, drumroll please, it's heavier than air and doesn't dissipate readily. That's one reason they roundabout mention checking air in people's homes. Air readings could be manipulated simply by tak…

Or the readings could be the usual EPA PM2.5, CO, NOx, and ozone concentrations, and phosgene, vinyl chloride, and HCl are none of the above. (Although a cheap VOC sensor could plausibly detect phosgene and vinyl chloride.)

Re: Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment

#78

Post by goatlover »

m4x wrote: post #33
mshake2 wrote: post #17

>“Smoke and chemicals from the train, that’s the only thing that can cause it, because it doesn’t just happen out of nowhere,” Holzer says. “The chemicals that we’re being told are safe in the air, that’s definitely not safe for the animals … or people.” >“All the readings we’ve been recording in the community have been at normal concentrations, normal background, what you would find in almost any community operating…

The widespread reports of smells in the air, headaches, dead fish and other animals makes it hard to believe that "all the readings are at normal concentrations". Although what they actually said is that all the readings they've recorded are normal. The most disconcerting thing is that vinyl chloride is a carcinogen, so there may be many people who have been exposed to enough to give them cancer but who won't know ab…

Obligatory: 3.6 Roentgen, not great not terrible.

Re: Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment

#79

Post by [deleted] »

Scubabear68 wrote: post #50
Alex3917 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that you can go on YouTube and see videos of the head of the EPA telling the 9/11 first responders that the air was perfectly safe to breathe, I’m probably going to go with the cat owners on this one.

I worked a block away and we were back in very quickly. Then the HEPA filters came, then there was a lot of chaos. I learned a lot of how government can go wrong those few months.

[deleted]

Re: Health concerns mounting as animals become sick after train derailment

#80

Post by hedora »

orange_joe wrote: post #23

It's worth mentioning the backdrop of this is the current drive toward PSR (precision scheduled railroading), which has meant overworking train engineers with improved "efficiencies" through extremely long trains, and overworked employees. This has greatly increased the value of the train companies on the stock market, but at the expense of the workers (this came to a head a few months ago with pending labor strikes…

Related to this, the railworkers rejected their current labor contract, but congress and Biden intervened, blocking a strike two months ago:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-signs-bill-block-us-r...

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