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Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

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Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#71

Post by freejazz »

gruez wrote: post #37
dfgheaoinbt6t wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Especially once people start down the path of thinking the needs of today aren't as important as the needs of a hypothetical future population. It's not that that bothers me so much as the fact that many effective altruists do it so badly . We need to be concerned with the future. That is the only reason to maintain roads and bridges, to prevent pollution, or to conserve resources like water in aquifers and helium.…

>It's not that that bothers me so much as the fact that many effective altruists do it so badly. [...] But effective altruists are as likely to talk about colonizing Mars as they are to talk about global warming. Are they doing it badly, or are you not understanding their arguments? AFAIK effective altruists want to colonize mars on x-risk grounds, which would explain why they want to prioritize that over global warm…

>Are they doing it badly, or are you not understanding their arguments?

Do YOU not understand their arguments? They are facially stupid. The notion that we should be colonizing mars because of global warming is the stupidest thing I've ever read or heard.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#72

Post by [deleted] »

travisjungroth wrote: post #56
zozbot234 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why Mars though? Why not colonize the Gebi Desert first?

x-risk is existential risk, as in humans get wiped out. Some big ones are meteor impact, nuclear war and disease. The risk of those things ending all of humanity are greatly reduced with a second planet. They're not reduced with a desert colony.

[deleted]

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#73

Post by telotortium »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #61
jfengel wrote: post #12

The worst thing about being smart is how easy it is to talk yourself into believing just about anything. After all, you make really good arguments. EA appeals to exactly that kind of really-smart-person who is perfectly capable of convincing themselves that they're always right about everything. And from there, you can justify all kinds of terrible things. Once that happens, it can easily spiral out from there. Peopl…

> EA appeals to exactly that kind of really-smart-person who is perfectly capable of convincing themselves that they're always right about everything. And from there, you can justify all kinds of terrible things. I came to the same conclusion after a group of my friends got involved with the local rationalist and EA community, though for a different reason: Their drug habits. They believed themselves to have a better…

No, they should have listened to their parents! Drug positivity is supposed to be reserved for cannabis and hallucinogens!

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#75

Post by ketzo »

theragra wrote: post #15

If there are less cases of abuse than among generic populace, it is weird to blame the movement. From the article, it is hard to understand that EA is somehow worse than most of the USA. Also, arguments for polyamory are just that, arguments. You certainly can press someone into it, but from the article, the impression that it is more like persuasion. Regarding cult dynamics - any tight knit community feels like this…

> but from the article, the impression that it is more like persuasion.

Okay -- but if you showed up to a tech conference, and someone in the hallway was trying to "persuade" you to join a threesome, would you feel that was appropriate for the setting? The issue is that so much of this relationship-and-sex talk is happening to people who didn't think they had signed up for it. That's where you start verging on abuse.

I think part of the issue is that EA is:

- kind of life-defining by nature

- filled with people who seek self-improvement

- filled with people who are excellent persuaders

With that mix, it is uncomfortably easy to start "mixing business with pleasure," so to speak. People in that environment think that they live a really interesting and good life, and want to convince others of that fact.

That's why people are blaming the movement, I think.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#77

Post by BWStearns »

Least surprising thing ever when the movement's logic resembles the philosophical version of pickup artistry (and I'd bet good money that it's a thick middle of the Venn diagram) in terms of justifying some shitty behavior with rhetorical sleights of hand.

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#78

Post by czzr »

michaelt wrote: post #49
tablespoon wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Effective Altruism is just a modern iteration of a thing that's been around for a very long time. Which you think is what, exactly? I'm under the impression that thing is warmed-over utilitarianism. > The fundamental idea is sound. I do not believe utilitarianism is sound, because its logic can be easily used to justify some obviously horrible things. However the framework appeals very strongly to "rationalist" typ…

The "10% of lifetime income to charity" pledge is pretty close to Christian tithing, Islamic zakat, and suchlike. Who also claim to be spending donations to help the poorest people in society, and with low waste. Of course, EA has a bunch of other weird stuff like AI safety, which isn't an idea that's been around for millennia.

Well, actually, on AI safety: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#79

Post by [deleted] »

xchip wrote: post #65

This is a free article, and for the same reason in Photography Books, on the cover there is usually a naked lady, in these free articles the story is also always about sex or something that appeals to your instincts. Chances are this story was exaggerated up to a point to make it call your attention so you subscribe. If something is free, you are the product.

[deleted]

Re: Effective altruism has a sexual harassment problem, women say

#80

Post by kiba »

tablespoon wrote: post #41
JohnFen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Effective Altruism is just a modern iteration of a thing that's been around for a very long time. The fundamental idea is sound. However, in practice, it all-too-easily devolves into something really terrible. Especially once people start down the path of thinking the needs of today aren't as important as the needs of a hypothetical future population. Personally, I started "tithing" when my first business was a succe…

> Effective Altruism is just a modern iteration of a thing that's been around for a very long time. Which you think is what, exactly? I'm under the impression that thing is warmed-over utilitarianism. > The fundamental idea is sound. I do not believe utilitarianism is sound, because its logic can be easily used to justify some obviously horrible things. However the framework appeals very strongly to "rationalist" typ…

I do not believe utilitarianism is sound, because its logic can be easily used to justify some obviously horrible things. However the framework appeals very strongly to "rationalist" type people.

If it sounds horrible, then it's probably is?

The logical chain of hurting a human leading to helping two human doesn't sound like something that is moral or dependable.

Giving to charities that focus on the most severe and urgent problem of humanity is a very straightforward idea.

However, not all charities are focused on the most urgent problems. For example, a local charity I frequent does improv and comedy theater, hardly 'urgent' needs. People don't like to hear is that they could donate money to a third world NGO providing vaccines, or fighting corruption in third world countries instead of their local church or community theater.

Don't get me wrong, community theaters/churches/etc are good things. They just aren't saving lives.

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