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Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

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Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#71
post #13

I worked for a restaurant that did this to me. To make sure I hit the "minimum hours" (when you start talking about hours vs tasks or responsibilities you probably aren't getting into a legitimate salary arrangement) they would have me clock in and out, and I'd get pay stubs with 40 hours (less if I worked less) and the overtime hours paid at $0. They withheld my last paycheck when I quit and stopped responding to my…

As a small government advocate, i have no issue with labor boards. the alternative is violence or unionization, neither of which are optimal in resolving disputes like these in a civilized and efficient manner.

What really matters is how human institutions and organizations shape each other's incentives and costs [1]. Instead of aiming for abstract, intangible goals like "small" or "big" government, how about developing a sense of institutional design and relating that to a set of moral and political values. That way, it's actually possible to debug disagreements, either reducing them down to moral values and hopefully leaving it out of the public sphere or locating actual policy questions with less room for aesthetics and more for evidence, studies and sensible debate.

[1] https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w10481/w104...

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#72
post #13

I worked for a restaurant that did this to me. To make sure I hit the "minimum hours" (when you start talking about hours vs tasks or responsibilities you probably aren't getting into a legitimate salary arrangement) they would have me clock in and out, and I'd get pay stubs with 40 hours (less if I worked less) and the overtime hours paid at $0. They withheld my last paycheck when I quit and stopped responding to my…

As a small government advocate, i have no issue with labor boards. the alternative is violence or unionization, neither of which are optimal in resolving disputes like these in a civilized and efficient manner.

Unionization is amazing. I do not know why especially people in US are so against this. Did they just gave up and are okay with the big corps fucking them over withouth having any leverage?

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#73
As an employee, I wouldn't be too miffed about a fake "on-paper" promotion with a fancy job title. In the short run, it's not usually beneficial to anything other than your ego, but in the long-run that fancy title is your ticket to job-hopping to a better situation.

From a business perspective, this seems like a sort of a penny-wise, pound-foolish decision because an employee who has a fancy "Director of X" title is probably more likely able to find employment elsewhere because of their fancy job title. In the long run, a company will probably pay more through having somebody swap jobs, having to pay extra to poach somebody, and pay for recruitment and training.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#76
If your categorization can be subverted by changing a title, it either needs a better definition or it needs to not exist. Otherwise you're making decisions based on daydreams that can wreck people's lives. And I'm very pessimistic about a better definition, since I think technology is going to make the line between "worker" and "manager" even blurrier over time, in practice if not in law.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#77

The article isn't mainly about manager titles. The manager titles are just part of the way companies justify paying people a fixed salary (with no paid overtime) vs. paying people for the hours they work. They found that the incidence of fake-sounding manager titles spiked at the legal threshold of $455 a week — exactly the cutoff at which a company would be allowed to put workers on salary and sidestep OT payment la…

I'll never understand how $11.38 an hour is manager money in any line of work.

It's not and doesn't meet the minimum requirement for a salaried worker. I believe you need to make $48,500, or roughly $24ish/hr.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#78

I’ve said it before but I’ll keep pounding the drum that the FLSA needs to be completely rewritten. Any work more than 8 hours in a day should result in overtime pay regardless of type of work or base salary. It’s ridiculous that companies can force people to work 24/7 with no extra pay just because those people happen to work with computers or in "knowledge" work. And even developers/IT folks are largely not making…

It's not that simple though. I'm an IT Director. A good chunk of my time is just thinking and not doing. It's impossible to measure the amount of work I do in a day because I'm thinking about stuff when I shower, or am walking the dog etc. Do I sit at my laptop 8 hours a day? Fuck no. Do I work 8 hours a day? Probably, but it's hard to say. I can't say "I worked for 9.5 hours today" because it's impossible to measure.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#79
post #38

Start sending manager and hr to jail for wage theft. If an employee falsified timesheets they can and have been convicted of theft. Why isn’t the reverse true? Jail is a huge motivating factor and why you don’t see wide spread accounting fraud in public companies.

That's probably not a path you want to go down. Do we start putting employees in jail for wage theft?

Yes. Theft is a crime regardless of how it's done.

Re: Companies save billions of dollars by giving employees fake “manager” titles

#80

If your categorization can be subverted by changing a title, it either needs a better definition or it needs to not exist. Otherwise you're making decisions based on daydreams that can wreck people's lives. And I'm very pessimistic about a better definition, since I think technology is going to make the line between "worker" and "manager" even blurrier over time, in practice if not in law.

Having direct reports would be a fairly sensible condition that would be difficult to fake, it not being in the law revels that the law is working as intended.
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