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Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

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Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#71

Post by antipotoad »

metadat wrote: post #46
AmericanChopper wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen that system in quite a few cities now. I’m was initially surprised to see it adopted, because breakage revenue can be enormous. But it’s common enough now that I find places using exclusively the old stored value cards to be outright contemptible.

Think about it from their shoes. Why would you actively spend resources to replace an existing "working" system to develop and implement a new and more efficient system which nets you less resources?

One reason could be to enable novel fare systems, like London has with its Oyster network.

You can travel around (scanning your contactless debit / credit card) without thinking about how much you’re paying, safe in the knowledge that the system caps your daily / weekly spend to predefined limits, essentially making it never more expensive than a daily / weekly travel card would be. The caps are automatically calculated for the zones you travel in.

It’s a very nice experience as a rider. Especially beneficial to visitors who can just scan through the gates as any Londoner would, no ticket purchase required.

As for the rationale to implement such a system — well, it’s ultimately a public service. All revenue generated is reinvested into the network, in London at least. The economic value of a fast, efficient, painless transit system that everyone uses, regardless of class or wealth, most surely outweighs any lost breakage revenue.

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#72

Post by 8n4vidtmkvmk »

wodenokoto wrote: post #70
NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #21

During the COVID outbreak, my public transit provider began to neglect their fareboxes (partly because everyone was boarding in the rear and didn't bother to pay fares anyway.) I noticed that the boxes were still broken and unmaintained. I put 2 and 2 together and realized that a mobile "upgrade" was coming soon, so I kept my eyes out. And sure enough, I got myself invited to participate in the pilot project with the…

The best tech solution I’ve yet to see is simply accepting credit/debit cards. Checking in, they can charge you minimum fare and checking out they can charge you remainder. They could also charge you maximum fare and return remainder on checkout. You can even keep track of card and give discounts for multiple rides. All without registration. Works with watches and phones too.

pretty sure they do this in Vancouver bc now. i think i heard san Francisco is starting it too now. but i haven't tried either first hand

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#73

Post by domh »

wodenokoto wrote: post #70
NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #21

During the COVID outbreak, my public transit provider began to neglect their fareboxes (partly because everyone was boarding in the rear and didn't bother to pay fares anyway.) I noticed that the boxes were still broken and unmaintained. I put 2 and 2 together and realized that a mobile "upgrade" was coming soon, so I kept my eyes out. And sure enough, I got myself invited to participate in the pilot project with the…

The best tech solution I’ve yet to see is simply accepting credit/debit cards. Checking in, they can charge you minimum fare and checking out they can charge you remainder. They could also charge you maximum fare and return remainder on checkout. You can even keep track of card and give discounts for multiple rides. All without registration. Works with watches and phones too.

This is how the London Underground works now. Used to require an Oyster card but has worked with contactless cards for a good few years at this point.

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#74

Post by reustle »

fuzzfactor wrote: post #49

On the Florida Turnpike it was always too expensive for many students when they traveled up and down the state. It was bad enough having captive service stations and restaurants for overpriced products, but the toll was and still is ridiculous too, considering it was agreed there would be no toll after the construction was paid for, And it was well paid for decades ago. Anyway there were only very few exits and they…

I used to live in the US and currently live in Japan. We pay around $95 to go about 5 hours on a highway from Tokyo to Kyoto, for example. 3~ hours north is about $35. I think this more accurately charges us drivers for the resources we consume.

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#75

Post by leipert »

shortcake27 wrote: post #66
netsharc wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like an iPhone feature: https://www.techradar.com/news/apples-iphone-xs-has-a-game-c... The Pasmo/Suica cards are intriguing, they are NFC, but also store the last few transactions on the card itself, there are also mobile apps for scanning these cards to see how much credit you have left and list the above-mentioned transactions.

I’m a huge fan of the Pasmo/Suica cards. They’re easy to obtain and easy to accept payments, so uptake is huge (if memory serves me correctly, literally accepted everywhere?). You get most of the benefits of card payments (fast, no fiddling with change, no “do you have a smaller note”), but you also maintain anonymity which is a common argument I hear against cards in Germany and why card payments are so rare there (…

In Germany the pandemic had quite an impact. From 2019 to 2021 cash payments dropped by ~12%, down to 38% of transactions.

What’s more important, loads of shops eg bakeries have card terminals now.

Source: https://www.papershift.com/blog/die-kartenzahlung-ist-in-deu...

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#76

Post by tsujamin »

lmz wrote: post #50
tsujamin wrote: post #23

The bit at the end regarding the unauthenticated anti-fraud database of trips reminds me of bus tickets in a couple of australian states, which (locally on the 13MHz MFC cards) store a short rolling log of your most recent trips. Not as bad as a public API, but probably some degree of a personal safety risk given the security around MFC cards and the ability to ascertain pattern-of-life from the data

Those are useful for ticket inspectors and also for troubleshooting issues e.g. if the fare gate won't let you out.

No ticket inspectors in play, but it’s roughly a COTS system so makes sense I guess

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#77

Post by IanCal »

zhte415 wrote: post #63
switch007 wrote: post #6

> Nowadays, the industry would very much like you to ditch your paper ticket in favour of a fancy mobile barcode one (or an ITSO smartcard2); not only do they not have to spend money on printing tickets but they also gain the ability to more precisely track the ticket’s usage across the network and minimise fraud. And unsurprisingly only a subset of tickets are available on the apps. Therefore the government gets its…

Just do away with tickets and apps altogether and scan your national ID card. Or give everyone a national fare allowance to boot, like the national subsidy for maintenance of roads and their other associated costs.

There isn't a national id card.

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#78

Post by kevinh456 »

reustle wrote: post #74
fuzzfactor wrote: post #49

On the Florida Turnpike it was always too expensive for many students when they traveled up and down the state. It was bad enough having captive service stations and restaurants for overpriced products, but the toll was and still is ridiculous too, considering it was agreed there would be no toll after the construction was paid for, And it was well paid for decades ago. Anyway there were only very few exits and they…

I used to live in the US and currently live in Japan. We pay around $95 to go about 5 hours on a highway from Tokyo to Kyoto, for example. 3~ hours north is about $35. I think this more accurately charges us drivers for the resources we consume.

What's the condition of the road like? I assume that it is immaculate.

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#79

Post by kevinh456 »

domh wrote: post #73
wodenokoto wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best tech solution I’ve yet to see is simply accepting credit/debit cards. Checking in, they can charge you minimum fare and checking out they can charge you remainder. They could also charge you maximum fare and return remainder on checkout. You can even keep track of card and give discounts for multiple rides. All without registration. Works with watches and phones too.

This is how the London Underground works now. Used to require an Oyster card but has worked with contactless cards for a good few years at this point.

Coming from the states, tap in/tap out with my watch on the underground was so easy.

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#80

Post by SCdF »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #2

Nobody who cheers "mobile tickets" has ever watched a guard or ticket inspector do their job. In the UK, a guard with good eyesight and a sprightly, cheerful manner can almost run through the carriages shouting "tickets please!" and see, with a single glance, all s/he needs. Then she gets to the muppets with phones. They faff, fumble and fuss. They scowl at being interrupted watching videos, browsing social media and…

This has not been my experience of digital vs paper tickets in any country at any point, the UK included. And I don't mean it mostly doesn't happen, I don't think I've ever particularly noticed an instance of drama created through tickets being digital specifically.
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