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Google Play Developer Antitrust Litigation

googleplaydevelopersettlement.com

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Re: Google Play Developer Antitrust Litigation

#71

Post by mikepurvis »

largbae wrote: post #68
paulryanrogers wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a risk that settling sweeps chronic, bad behavior under the rug. Which is especially bad when powerful actors can use settlement to coerce victims into hiding the truth, and enabling future bad behaviors.

It absolutely does that... but the victim(s) sign the settlement, so it seems they are not ready to die on that hill.

Sure, I think it's clear that settlements work from a game theory perspective, in the sense that two rational actors working for their own best interest can accept one.

But the larger question is about whether this state of affairs is good for society. As citizens of a democracy, we (theoretically) get to have a say in how courts are run, and if the way the courts are run permits wealthy corporations to buy their way of repeated violations and be utterly unrepentant about it, maybe the rules need re-examining.

Re: Google Play Developer Antitrust Litigation

#72

Post by _23sd »

thrdbndndn wrote: post #26

Genuine question: how was Apple rarely sued in similar fashion? Not just compared to Android/Google, but also the way they bundle programs in their operating systems, compared to Microsoft browser case in the US/EU. To my untrained eyes, they're worse in almost every aspect. Is it just the boring answer "they have better lawyers", or are there things fundamentally different?

In this case, Apple was sued in a similar fashion and settled in a similar fashion.

The settlement website: https://smallappdeveloperassistance.com/

Summary of the settlement: https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/26/app-store-changes-devel...

Re: Google Play Developer Antitrust Litigation

#73

Post by DannyBee »

scotty79 wrote: post #69
DannyBee wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That's always bothered me too. I think someone should be forced to admit to wrongdoing, or else keep battling in court to prove their side. " God no. For starters, civil litigation does not have a goal of proving right or wrong, but settling disputes between two parties. This is actually a good thing. But what you are suggesting goes against the very basis of civil litigation systems :). You see the same thing in sa…

> You see the same thing in say, divorces. People fight in court because they want a judge to tell them they are right and their ex is wrong, and mostly the judges tell them to grow up and act like adults. From what I heard juges say nothing. Meanwhile lawers of both sides drain money from them until one of the sides concludes that it's not worth to continue.

Without breaking confidentiality, this is not my experience. That isn't to say it doesn't happen - states are very different, but at least in the states and areas i've seen it (CA, NY, MD, DC, VA), judges were pretty aggressive at telling people to stop wasting their time and mediate it out instead.

Again, I can even buy that you may see differences between say NYC and Albany, but at least what i saw was pretty consistent.

The family law judges did not have a lot of tolerance for adults pissing on each other, and made it clear they wanted parties to resolve most things without them.

Re: Google Play Developer Antitrust Litigation

#74

Post by thrwawy74 »

DannyBee wrote: post #66
thrwawy74 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the courts are meant to settle disputes quickly, not justly. The appearance of swift justice.

Justice is not a well shared concept, so that's basically impossible anyway. Beyond that, this is actually right. For civil disputes, the main historical goal has always been compensation for injuries/damages. That's it. Speed is actually a goal because you want people to be put back into a good place as fast as possible. Otherwise, the goal of a number is reasonable. Not perfect. Just reasonable. Again, it's a dispu…

Thanks for articulating this. I hadn't thought about how using the courts for social change is a relatively new thing (maybe since the civil rights act in the ~60s).

Re: Google Play Developer Antitrust Litigation

#75

Post by thayne »

eric-hu wrote: post #16
capableweb wrote: post #2

> A settlement has been reached with Google LLC, Google Ireland Limited, Google Commerce Limited, Google Asia Pacific Pte. Limited, and Google Payment Corp. (“Google”) in an antitrust class action lawsuit about the Google Play store. The lawsuit was brought by U.S. app developers. The lawsuit alleged that Google monopolized (or attempted to monopolize) alleged markets related to the distribution of Android OS apps an…

Consider a similar case where you probably favor the defendants. Random patent troll company registered in Texas files 1000's of lawsuits against companies that it alleges infringes on a trivial patent, i.e. one click checkout. All companies settle because the cost of going to court is greater than the requested settlement amount of $500k. Should we also see these companies admit that they infringed on (likely frivol…

I get your point, but in that case, I'd rather see it go to court and the patent get invalidated. While settling might be good for the settling parties, it doesn't stop patent troll from making more frivolous suites, and I don't think it is better for society as a whole.

Just to be clear I don't think settlements are always bad. But there are definitely cases (in both directions), where settlements result in a worse outcome for society.

Re: Google Play Developer Antitrust Litigation

#76

Post by throwntoday »

themacguffinman wrote: post #47
as1992 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, its based on the perception of the companies combined with the impact they have on the general consumer market. Eg 70% of phones run Android, only 27% run iOS which makes Google a much better target to go after. Same situation with personal computing, Windows was like 80% of the consumer/business market when the whole browser thing took place. MacOS was something like 5%. Also I've never really heard o…

In the US the marketshare split is closer to 45-55, with iOS having the larger 55% share. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1045192/share-of-mobile-... .

I believe in Japan it's closer to 90/10 with 90% being iOS. Depending on the country really the split is very much leaning towards iPhone.

And younger generation, sub-30, overwhelmingly prefer iPhone.

Re: Google Play Developer Antitrust Litigation

#77

Post by gretch »

mikepurvis wrote: post #71
largbae wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely does that... but the victim(s) sign the settlement, so it seems they are not ready to die on that hill.

Sure, I think it's clear that settlements work from a game theory perspective, in the sense that two rational actors working for their own best interest can accept one. But the larger question is about whether this state of affairs is good for society . As citizens of a democracy, we (theoretically) get to have a say in how courts are run, and if the way the courts are run permits wealthy corporations to buy their wa…

> As citizens of a democracy, we (theoretically) get to have a say in how courts are run

That’s not the point of civil cases between 2 private parties.

If you want your say, call your congress person and vote for platforms which intend to introduce legislation. (Or whichever process your country uses).

Not every proceeding has to be about deciding good vs evil. Things have their place.

Re: Google Play Developer Antitrust Litigation

#78

Post by adventurer »

cft wrote: post #59

We developed a free social media application back in 2016 that cost us about $500,000 to build. We provided multiple safety filters including world filters, neural net pornography detection for profile avatars, etc. The application had a user profile search function. We had about 100,000 downloads in less than a year. I'm sure that 99.9% of user profiles did not contain any sexual material. Certainly less than Twitte…

I was banned around that time, myself. I ported to objective-c and applied to iTunes. the exact same app. made it through their manual review process. Still banned in the dev console even after this settlement. If there’s any way to get back in, someone please let us know. Unfortunately, I believe the only answer is to create a LLC.

Re: Google Play Developer Antitrust Litigation

#79

Post by depressedpanda »

Maursault wrote: post #32
thrdbndndn wrote: post #26

Genuine question: how was Apple rarely sued in similar fashion? Not just compared to Android/Google, but also the way they bundle programs in their operating systems, compared to Microsoft browser case in the US/EU. To my untrained eyes, they're worse in almost every aspect. Is it just the boring answer "they have better lawyers", or are there things fundamentally different?

> but also the way they bundle programs in their operating systems, compared to Microsoft browser case in EU. Microsoft was blocking competitors by requiring a fee for every processor sold by a manufacturer that offered Windows, whether that machine was sold with Windows or not, causing any other operating system sold on licensee machines to be more expensive for consumers. It wasn't bundling that was the issue in Mi…

> You can delete Safari and every application Apple bundles

This is not possible on iPhone though. You can't even run any other browser than (reskinned) Safari.

Re: Google Play Developer Antitrust Litigation

#80

Post by 29083011397778 »

thayne wrote: post #75
eric-hu wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider a similar case where you probably favor the defendants. Random patent troll company registered in Texas files 1000's of lawsuits against companies that it alleges infringes on a trivial patent, i.e. one click checkout. All companies settle because the cost of going to court is greater than the requested settlement amount of $500k. Should we also see these companies admit that they infringed on (likely frivol…

I get your point, but in that case, I'd rather see it go to court and the patent get invalidated. While settling might be good for the settling parties, it doesn't stop patent troll from making more frivolous suites, and I don't think it is better for society as a whole. Just to be clear I don't think settlements are always bad. But there are definitely cases (in both directions), where settlements result in a worse…

I distinctly recall cheering on old Newegg when a patent troll accidentally sued them. Newegg said they would be taking the issue to court, and actually prevented the patent troll from backing out of the suit, IIRC.
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