Live data from Hacker News

The Mystery of the Dune Font

fontsinuse.com

71–80 of 98 posts

Re: The Mystery of the Dune Font

#71
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read the Frank Herbert Dune books back-to-back several times and love them all, but I've never tried his son's additions to the series because I've read a few people saying they're not worth the time. Do you agree?

They're quite bad, and I doubt very much they are based on Frank Herbert's "found notes" in any way. If they are, Brian Herbert should publish those notes, like Christopher Tolkien did. Lower quality writing, and not thoughtful, and the story arc they take things in seems much cruder than what Frank Herbert would have had in mind.

The trick in following from notes is that you need to become the author.

Consider Variable Star by Spider Robinson which is based on 7 surviving pages of 8 pages of notes written in 1955 by Robert A. Heinlein.

http://www.spiderrobinson.com/reilly.html

> So I went home, and received a copy of Robert’s outline and notes, and loved them, and wrote two sample chapters and a proposal and a title (Robert had put down seven possible titles, but even he didn’t like any of them much), and they were all approved by Art Dula, and in the fullness of time the book, to be known as “ROBERT A. HEINLEIN’S VARIABLE STAR by Spider Robinson,” sold to Tor for the proverbial six figures.

> Since then, little dividends of joy keep coming in, like the receding ripples of pleasure that accompany a truly great orgasm--and sometimes, if you’re lucky, signal that it’s about to become a multiple. For example, Art Dula moved me to tears by sending me, out of the blue, Robert’s desk dictionary, heavily used and carefully repaired--Robert Heinlein’s personal box of words. He filled out the package with a pound of authentic Jamaica Blue Mountain. Similarly, sweet Amy sent me a set of her grandfather’s cufflinks to wear as I type VARIABLE STAR, and Jeanne a few pieces of her grandmother’s jewelry to wear for me when I stumble from the typewriter. I feel supported and encouraged by the whole Heinlein family and legacy. That makes me the luckiest writer alive. And one of the luckiest readers.

When writing it, he had the same "these are the words that you are to use while writing as Heinlein."

One of the reviews http://www.spiderrobinson.com/variablefans.html

> This novel should be the example held forth when writers collaborate. Spider has perfectly captured the pacing, feel and stature of a Robert Heinlein story while retaining his own identity. It doesn’t feel like someone trying to “write like Heinlein”, but like someone who’s read every book the man’s written so many times it’s second nature.

https://bookshop.org/p/books/variable-star-robert-a-heinlein...

> "Completing a book from notes by a dead author is almost always a mistake. But Robert A. Heinlein apparently isn't really dead. He was obviously standing at the side of Spider Robinson as he wrote this book, guiding his hand. Variable Star will delight the fans of the greatest science fiction writer who ever lived, and at the same time, stays true to Spider's passionate themes of optimism, kindness, and humanity's future among the stars." --John Varley, Hugo and Nebula Award-winning author of The Persistence of Vision and Steel Beach

This is the way to do continuations - not fan fiction but, for lack of a better word, channeling the spirit of the original author so that you can become them and use the same style rather than imposing your own style on top of their world.

Re: The Mystery of the Dune Font

#72
post #50

Is there a name for the art style depicted on these covers? They're beautifully done

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Deco The covers are a 1960s minimalist deco design. Abrupt geometric shapes, the sort of stuff that is easily printed/viewed using the tech of the time. The colors are solid and few, which make printing easy. The colors are also not absolutely necessary. The shapes come through equally well in black and white media. And if you want to look good on the low-res TV of the time, you go w…

Sorry, are we looking at the same covers? There is no 1960s minimalism in the original covers, they are fairly detailed 1970's scifi surrealism.

Re: The Mystery of the Dune Font

#73
post #10
post #2

None of these covers shows "the" Dune font, for me. The first edition of Dune had a very stylized calligraphy that looked like arabic. I remember it vividly since my dad had this book in the living room, among others; and when I was learning to read, this was the only cover that I couldn't read at all. (It was a translation, but with the same cover.) These letters are shown on the wikipedia page about the novel: http…

> EDIT: The covers of some modern french translations are also incredible. Just the four letters D U N E, which are exactly the same shape but rotated 90 degrees. It's an incredibly simple and effective design. Indeed, the Robert Laffont 2020 edition looks great: https://www.noosfere.org/livres/EditionsLivre.asp?numitem=13...

I was wondering where I got that copy. My old one had its binding failed and I purchased this Robert Laffont special edition (an email promo maybe?). Thanks for pointing it out for me.

Re: The Mystery of the Dune Font

#74
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're quite bad, and I doubt very much they are based on Frank Herbert's "found notes" in any way. If they are, Brian Herbert should publish those notes, like Christopher Tolkien did. Lower quality writing, and not thoughtful, and the story arc they take things in seems much cruder than what Frank Herbert would have had in mind.

The trick in following from notes is that you need to become the author. Consider Variable Star by Spider Robinson which is based on 7 surviving pages of 8 pages of notes written in 1955 by Robert A. Heinlein. http://www.spiderrobinson.com/reilly.html > So I went home, and received a copy of Robert’s outline and notes, and loved them, and wrote two sample chapters and a proposal and a title (Robert had put down seven…

I think Christopher Tolkien pretty much did this. And what was great was the way he edited (with his father's blessing), did a small amount of continuation, as well as published the original notes, so we could all see the authorial process.

However in Tolkien's case, there was an explicit father son work relationship that was grounded in their mutual love and family life, and the fact that both had similar education, etc.

My understanding is Brian Herbert was estranged from his father and they had a bad relationship.

And Brian Herbert brought in an outside writer (Kevin J Anderson) to do a lot (most?) of the actual writing.

The world of Dune fans would have been better served if Herbert had simply published his father's notes, maybe with some annotations or reflections.

Given the above, and as hasn't provided those notes and documents he apparently found, and as the plot veers quite a bit in tone from what Frank Herbert seemed to me to have in mind, I actually have a hard time believing the notes he is apparently working from actually exist.

Further, the published works he has created are really not good.

Re: The Mystery of the Dune Font

#75
post #14
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not arabic, rather just cursive.

Many children have grown up these days without learning cursive in school, thus every time they see squiggly fonts they think Arabic first.

> Many children have grown up these days without learning cursive in school, thus every time they see squiggly fonts they think Arabic first.

Wait, are you saying that children in US schools write in block letters these days? That must be slow!

Re: The Mystery of the Dune Font

#76
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the parent, but I've also read all the original 6 books a great number of times, as well as about 7 or 8 of the B. Herbert/K. Anderson Dune books, and I'd say they aren't worth it. They largely explain things that, as far as I'm concerned, didn't need explaining. As you probably know, they wrote a 2 book conclusion to the series. These 2 books largely tie the Frank Herbert Dune universe with the B. Herbert/K.…

I loved Dune, and while I don't think all the original sequels were as strong, I enjoyed them all and have reread them several times over the years. I slogged my way through the first couple of his son's work, but I read the first page of Butlerian Jihad and, for the first time in my life, threw the book against the wall and tossed it in the garbage. Inside his pyramid-shaped vessel, the cymek general Agamemnon led t…

I so wanted the Bulterian Jihad story to be good, or at least decent, because it was always the most intriguing part of the prehistory to me. Oh well.

Re: The Mystery of the Dune Font

#77

That Dune Calendar from 1978 would work for this year too. Wonder if there's high quality scans available? Edit: Reasonable scan here: https://www.reddit.com/r/dune/comments/bh17j5/the_dune_calen...

Wow, the artwork is just beautiful. I wish this could get a re-release now that the new movies are introducing Dune to a new audience.

Re: The Mystery of the Dune Font

#78
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the parent, but I've also read all the original 6 books a great number of times, as well as about 7 or 8 of the B. Herbert/K. Anderson Dune books, and I'd say they aren't worth it. They largely explain things that, as far as I'm concerned, didn't need explaining. As you probably know, they wrote a 2 book conclusion to the series. These 2 books largely tie the Frank Herbert Dune universe with the B. Herbert/K.…

I loved Dune, and while I don't think all the original sequels were as strong, I enjoyed them all and have reread them several times over the years. I slogged my way through the first couple of his son's work, but I read the first page of Butlerian Jihad and, for the first time in my life, threw the book against the wall and tossed it in the garbage. Inside his pyramid-shaped vessel, the cymek general Agamemnon led t…

Sounds like the hackneyed portrayal of Harkonnen as a super villain who has to refer to himself in the third person while exposition dumping his plan to a nephew who already knows who he is.

Re: The Mystery of the Dune Font

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal take (having read the entire series including the tacked-on ending by the son) is: The first Dune is the result of research and thinking. Great care went into it. Every subsequent book is more and more of "oh, here's a sequel". I can't remember anything after God Emperor which in itself was a slog bordering of abysmally bad. So: - Dune . Yes. It's slow, long, but ultimately very good - Dune Messiah . Mayb…

For me the sequels never hit the same highs as Dune, but they’re still better than most sci-fi novels that have been written, and I love how they gradually lean ever further into just being really weird. God Emperor is probably the pinnacle of that. I don’t remember much of Heretics or Chapterhouse, I should probably go back and re-read them at some point.

You might find it interesting re-reading God Emperor and its sequels in the context of today's LLM/ChatGTP etc context. Also automated surveilance.

Herbert's focus on human vs not-human, machine-thinking vs human-thinking, and his focus on "becoming invisible" (to prescience and to machines) as a path to freedom... is very relevant.

Post reply on HN