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Paizo Announces System-Neutral Open RPG License

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Re: Paizo Announces System-Neutral Open RPG License

#71

Post by Pet_Ant »

Macha wrote: post #34
Pet_Ant wrote: post #4

I’d like to hear from Monte Cook Games or White White as well.

Is White White meant to be White Wolf? They're basically defunct after the nazi scandal after Paradox bought them, Paradox licensed out their material for a few years and now has a new in-house team for World of Darkness.

Interesting, didn't know about that.

> In November 2018, as a result of backlash generated by material pertaining to "murder of gay Chechens" published in a Vampire: The Masquerade Fifth Edition source book as well as the inclusion of optional neo-Nazi aesthetic in the Brujah vampire clan,[7] it was announced that White Wolf would no longer function as an entity separate from its parent company, and would cease developing and publishing products internally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Wolf_Publishing#Purchase...

Re: Paizo Announces System-Neutral Open RPG License

#72

Post by trynewideas »

rkangel wrote: post #48
miiiiiike wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] game mechanics and rules are NOT copyrightable. We never needed OGL to publish material compatible with D&D (or any other system) in the first place. This is something that I've been seen written over and over again. While the mechanisms themselves are not subject to copyright, the rules , as authored by Wizards of the Coast, are. That is the specific implementation of those mechanisms (e.g. the definition of…

> When I pick up a book and see dex/str/con/wis/int/cha my eyes glass over. I want D&D to fade, I want publishers to create new, entirely novel, systems, and I don't care what it means the status quo The conclusion I've drawn from this is that the system doesn't really matter. The game rules are incredibly secondary to the concept of role-playing - the universe, the people, the motivations, the personalities etc. We'…

> The conclusion I've drawn from this is that the system doesn't really matter. The game rules are incredibly secondary to the concept of role-playing

Damn, have I got, like, 20 years of blogs, 40 years of forum and BBS posts, and 60 more years of magazine, zine, and rambling manifesto articles for you.

Re: Paizo Announces System-Neutral Open RPG License

#73

Post by trynewideas »

rkangel wrote: post #54
CuriouslyC wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The D&D combat system is high variance (single d20 rolls), and fundamentally flawed. DMs routinely have to fudge rolls and engage in divine intervention to prevent the night from ending early because the pack of gnolls that were supposed to be a filler encounter turned deadly with a streak of high rolls. Wargame systems where combat is the focus and fudging is cheating tend to use more small dice so you end up closer…

I'm never sure whether this is a bug or a feature. When DMing, while I do very occasionally fudge things I try hard not to. The unpredictable aspect of the universe is a good thing and adds to the drama of an encounter. I do do some other things to make this work - I don't have a huge number of random encounters (also for game pace) and have some mechanism that softens player death a little. E.g. an NPC that can do a…

Ironically, D&D's spin on Rule Zero, which is what you essentially describe in practice, isn't in any first-party SRD even though it's been arguably the foundational D&D rule as written in every published edition.[1]

It is, however, an OGL-covered rule in Pathfinder:[2]

> The rules presented are here to help you breathe life into your characters and the world they explore. While they are designed to make your game easy and exciting, you might find that some of them do not suit the style of play that your gaming group enjoys. Remember that these rules are yours. You can change them to fit your needs. Most Game Masters have a number of "house rules" that they use in their games. The Game Master and players should always discuss any rules changes to make sure that everyone understands how the game will be played. Although the Game Master is the final arbiter of the rules, the Pathfinder RPG is a shared experience, and all of the players should contribute their thoughts when the rules are in doubt.

1: https://theoutcastrogue.tumblr.com/post/685341001180741632/r...

2: https://pathfinder.d20srd.org/coreRulebook/gettingStarted.ht...

Re: Paizo Announces System-Neutral Open RPG License

#74

Post by trynewideas »

bovermyer wrote: post #43
bhickey wrote: post #39

It's unclear to me why CC-BY isn't sufficient for SRD material. I'm glad that Paizo is throwing off the yoke of Hasbro altogether, but I don't have a good understanding for what a new license will do that CC doesn't.

This discussion is also happening in publisher circles. I think the argument is that the ORC (Paizo's proposed license) will differentiate between reserved IP and open content. I'm not certain, though. Source: I own a tabletop RPG publisher.

Then remove IP you want to protect from the CC BY-licensed SRD, publish the books under normal copyright terms, and add the rules content to the SRD?

I still don't understand the value of the OGL spelling out reserved IP. That's already protected if the only open-licensed part is the rules text, which (not a lawyer) happens with a CC BY SRD and any other copyright license on the derived works.

Wizards leaving reserved IP in their official SRD was a bug, not a feature. Back when Paizo still self-hosted Pathfinder 1E's SRD, they solicited pointers to and removed protected terms that they accidentally left in it so it'd be more ergonomic for publishers.

Re: Paizo Announces System-Neutral Open RPG License

#75

Post by crote »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #49
mhd wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We never needed OGL to publish material compatible with D&D And we never needed Apple's permission to have overlapping windows. Alas… There was a long history of C&D letters and outright lawsuits. Heck, up until recently one of the head honchos of WotC was working at one of the companies being targeted by TSR in the 90s for their "Role Aids". A detente where you didn't have to worry about that as a small time publi…

Magic missile by itself is questionable since that language never gets used outside of D&D references, but it is also suitably generic. If you also used Strength, Intelligence, Constitution, Charisma and Wisdom as stats, and had hit dice, and so on, that would be problematic. If you chose new names for everything but the rules were otherwise identical that would be completely safe. Part of the problem is this is a gr…

I wonder how the ongoing dilution influences this.

For example, World of Warcraft has had the virtually identical Arcane Missiles spell for nearly twenty years now, and Terraria even had the identically-named Magic Missile for over a decade already.

In trademark law lack of enforcement can lead to the trademark becoming genericized, which is why words like Aspirin, Videotape, or Escalator are no longer trademarks but regular everyday words.

If you never enforce your IP rights despite being well aware of violations, and even actively promote use of it by third parties, at what point does it stop being IP and become common culture?

Re: Paizo Announces System-Neutral Open RPG License

#77

Post by musicale »

BerislavLopac wrote: post #17

While I understand the desire to define things legally - both by those who want the games to be open and by those who want to control them - game mechanics and rules are NOT copyrightable. We never needed OGL to publish material compatible with D&D (or any other system) in the first place [0]. [0] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/01/beware-gifts-dragons-h...

Great point, but it seems like it would be a huge pain to have to change all of the spell and monster lists and D&D-specific terms from the SRD into generic equivalents.

On the other hand, claiming copyright or trademark on D&D terms and mechanics that have diffused throughout the RPG universe for nearly 50 years (experience points, hit points, ability scores, spell levels, character classes and levels, alignment, saving throws, initiative, etc.) seems like a fool's errand.

Re: Paizo Announces System-Neutral Open RPG License

#78

Post by lofaszvanitt »

buggy6257 wrote: post #70
lofaszvanitt wrote: post #68

Pathfinder is an even bigger, overly complex bloat than D&D. I don't get it why people don't make their own systems. It's not rocket science...

Would you mind linking to the RPG systems you've written lately? I would love to play some new ones with friends from someone who knows what they're doing.

Maybe you will... all I'm saying everyone is nuthugging these old, dinosaur like systems. Time to move on.
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