Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

An unorthodox scholar uses technology to expose Biblical forgeries

smithsonianmag.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 207 posts

Re: An unorthodox scholar uses technology to expose Biblical forgeries

#71

Post by ghostDancer »

gattilorenz wrote: post #67
programmer_dude wrote: post #66

Isn't the whole bible a collection of fictional stories / articles? Who cares if some one tacks on extra "forged" chapters? What does forged even mean in this context?

A few billion people in the world who consider it a sacred book, to begin with. And historians, obviously. But this is like asking “well clearly Romeo and Juliet was a fictional story, who cares if we find out that Shakespeare didn’t write it”.

And not even among the ones that believe is sacred agree which parts are valid or not, not even mentioning the translations which it's own interpretations each.

Re: An unorthodox scholar uses technology to expose Biblical forgeries

#72

Post by monero-xmr »

programmer_dude wrote: post #66

Isn't the whole bible a collection of fictional stories / articles? Who cares if some one tacks on extra "forged" chapters? What does forged even mean in this context?

Plenty of stories in the Bible have historical basis

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_the_Bible

Imagine you are trying to assemble a history of Ancient Rome. You have inscriptions, 5% of the literature (a patchy mix of non-fiction and fiction, and the non-fiction is open to a lot of interpretation), and various secondary sources that summarize and write about primary sources that are lost to time. You also have archeological digs.

Now apply that same scientific mind to the Bible. A group of people decided what was in and what was out. If you can prove what they thought was valid because so-and-so apostle or a related person wrote it, and we can determine they did not, it’s certainly interesting even without the religious element.

Re: An unorthodox scholar uses technology to expose Biblical forgeries

#73

Post by [deleted] »

Fezzik wrote: post #64
ars wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A forger knows he is faking something. Someone who sincerely believes what he is writing is not a forger - even if you think he's wrong.

By your logic absolutely anything that is written down is not a forgery so long as the author believes the claims in its writings sincerely enough. That is clearly an awful standard for assessing truth claims or the veracity of stories.

[deleted]

Re: An unorthodox scholar uses technology to expose Biblical forgeries

#74

Post by bentley »

andrewflnr wrote: post #61
DontchaKnowit wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enoch is mentioned in the bible already

Yeah, but just a couple lines. Most of the mystique is probably from the Book of Enoch et al.

The Book of Enoch certainly has mystique, but even the brief mentions of Enoch in canonical scripture attract a lot of commentary, because they say he never died:

“Thus all the days that Adam lived were 930 years, and he died.” (Genesis 5:5, ESV)

“Thus all the days of Seth were 912 years, and he died.” (Genesis 5:8, ESV)

“Thus all the days of Enosh were 905 years, and he died.” (Genesis 5:11, ESV)

“Thus all the days of Kenan were 910 years, and he died.” (Genesis 5:14, ESV)

“Thus all the days of Mahalalel were 895 years, and he died.” (Genesis 5:17, ESV)

“Thus all the days of Jared were 962 years, and he died.” (Genesis 5:20, ESV)

“Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years. Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him.” (Genesis 5:23–24, ESV)

“Thus all the days of Methuselah were 969 years, and he died.” (Genesis 5:27, ESV)

“Thus all the days of Lamech were 777 years, and he died.” (Genesis 5:31, ESV)

The Bible only describes one other human, Elijah, as leaving Earth without having died. (Even Jesus died!)

Re: An unorthodox scholar uses technology to expose Biblical forgeries

#75

Post by tshaddox »

generalizations wrote: post #29
lapestenoire wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The burden of proof rests on those who make fantastical claims, not on everyone else to disprove their claims.

The point is that science can’t comment on the “divine inspiration” claim, except to note that it’s outside its purview. Burden of proof is a whole different discussion.

Sure, every supernatural claim from a religious text is “outside the purview of science” in the same way as that same exact claim appended with “and then a clown riding a unicorn flew overhead” is outside the purview of science.

Re: An unorthodox scholar uses technology to expose Biblical forgeries

#76

Post by wl »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #23

This sounds like he's using handwriting analysis on ancient text. I don't think modern handwriting analysis has a stellar record, I can't imagine it works great on scraps of parchment from thousands of years ago.

Paleography is a different animal than handwriting analysis.

Re: An unorthodox scholar uses technology to expose Biblical forgeries

#77

Post by chickenimprint »

waynecochran wrote: post #33
Minor49er wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Books of Enoch" by Paul C. Schnieders is an interesting read if you're curious about their contents. The general consensus from my understanding is that none of the ones we have today are the one referenced in The Bible

Thanks for the reference. I have read Enoch 1 and it is a wild story that in my view is pure fantasy (e.g., giants were 300 cubits tall!?). I have always just assumed that Jude and Peter were quoting some authentic version from earlier and the version I have read was the creation of an imposter.

You concluded a biblical text was fantastical, due to it's literal reading being physically impossible?

Re: An unorthodox scholar uses technology to expose Biblical forgeries

#78

Post by tshaddox »

gattilorenz wrote: post #67
programmer_dude wrote: post #66

Isn't the whole bible a collection of fictional stories / articles? Who cares if some one tacks on extra "forged" chapters? What does forged even mean in this context?

A few billion people in the world who consider it a sacred book, to begin with. And historians, obviously. But this is like asking “well clearly Romeo and Juliet was a fictional story, who cares if we find out that Shakespeare didn’t write it”.

Indeed, I suspect a large portion of those few billion people would in fact be surprised to learn that, for instance, the New Testament books called Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were not written by those people (if they even existed) and the texts do not even make any claims about their own authorship.

Re: An unorthodox scholar uses technology to expose Biblical forgeries

#79

Post by kkoncevicius »

lisper wrote: post #63
NateEag wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naturalism insists that anything which is supernatural cannot be scientifically investigated, by definition. If you want to live your life via the scientific method, awesome - it's a really powerful technique for refining the accuracy of predictions. It can't ever rigorously conclude whether anything was ever divinely inspired, though.

> Naturalism insists that anything which is supernatural cannot be scientifically investigated, by definition. No, that is not what naturalism is. That would be circular. Naturalism is the philosophical stance that things that cannot be observed do not exist. Alleged supernatural phenomena cannot ever be definitively ruled out (because new observations may confirm their existence) but to date there has never been an…

Under naturalism there can never be a supernatural phenomena that would prove supernatural things exist. Because once the phenomena reaches a state where it can be measured it ceases to be supernatural and becomes a thing of scientific investigation. And while its not in a state that could be measured there is nothing to investigate. Or put it another way - naturalism is a world view that would kill any supernatural interpretation even if/when its real. And as such it cannot be used to prove nor disprove supernaturalism.

Re: An unorthodox scholar uses technology to expose Biblical forgeries

#80

Post by gattilorenz »

ghostDancer wrote: post #71
gattilorenz wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few billion people in the world who consider it a sacred book, to begin with. And historians, obviously. But this is like asking “well clearly Romeo and Juliet was a fictional story, who cares if we find out that Shakespeare didn’t write it”.

And not even among the ones that believe is sacred agree which parts are valid or not, not even mentioning the translations which it's own interpretations each.

I don’t disagree, but also don’t see in what way this is relevant to the original question or opposing my answer. If anything, two billion people care so deeply about it that they can have arguments about what’s “valid” and what the meaning is.
Post reply on HN