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Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

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Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#71

Post by aosmith »

analog31 wrote: post #25

Granted a passenger car is not a heavy truck or bus, but living in the upper Midwest, I've learned that snow tires make a huge difference for winter driving. I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice, and having used them for a few years now, I'm a believer. So called "all season" tires are not snow tires. You can get a complete set of snow tires,…

Just make sure you take them off in the summer. They go away really fast in warm weather.

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#72

Post by LadyCailin »

bamboozled wrote: post #42

Would be useless if the snow is actually deep ?

Yes, but then so would normal snow chains. These are meant for icy inclines, nothing else, really, but that’s the same as snow chains, only those take longer to put on and off.

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#73

Post by supermatt »

alkonaut wrote: post #66
supermatt wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really - AWD is effectively non-braking traction control by varying the power distribution to each axle (and on some modern electric drivetrains, each wheel). 4wd provides constant power to both axles.

I think of it more as an outdated distinction. First of all with motors on each wheel and no communication between front/rear in many cases, the distinction becomes blurry. Further many manufacturers have names like “AWD” (volvo and others) or “4matic” (MB) or “4motion” (VW) to label their take on more-than-2wd, whether or not their variant is awd or 4WD (or both) in the traditional sense. Some "AWD" models will be e…

Its not outdated. There may be multiple variations on AWD (as i mentioned, some can vary power to individual wheels, rather than just the axles), but 4WD (or 4x4) is categorically not AWD.

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#74

Post by sethammons »

cortesoft wrote: post #39
userbinator wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like one of those things that's probably more common than you think, given that you'd have to pay very close attention and know what you're looking for to see them in use.

Also something I would never see living in Los Angeles.

However, living two hours away from LA in the San Bernardino mountains, our school buses were running these in the 80s and 90s.

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#75

Post by [deleted] »

meetingthrower wrote: post #68
supermatt wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really - AWD is effectively non-braking traction control by varying the power distribution to each axle (and on some modern electric drivetrains, each wheel). 4wd provides constant power to both axles.

Agree. We have a Tacoma that has 4WD and it is the absolute dumbest implementation. Contrast that to the Subaru with AWD and it is a completely different driving experience. We go with studs on the Tacoma for that reason, and get by with regular snows on the Subie.

[deleted]

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#76

Post by Osborne »

sethammons wrote: post #74
cortesoft wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also something I would never see living in Los Angeles.

However, living two hours away from LA in the San Bernardino mountains, our school buses were running these in the 80s and 90s.

[dead]

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#77

Post by sethammons »

Tor3 wrote: post #55
analog31 wrote: post #25

Granted a passenger car is not a heavy truck or bus, but living in the upper Midwest, I've learned that snow tires make a huge difference for winter driving. I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice, and having used them for a few years now, I'm a believer. So called "all season" tires are not snow tires. You can get a complete set of snow tires,…

> I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice All wheel drive helps zero with winter conditions, except for going uphill or some other acceleration-equivalent action. Quite the opposite really - many people have experienced how with 4x4 you don't get a warning before you just lose your grip and off the road you go. For the record I'm driving a 4x4,…

> All wheel drive helps zero with winter conditions, except for going uphill or some other acceleration-equivalent action

What are you on about? Living in Montana, AWD is dramatically better than 4WD. And winter tires are great. We never used them on one of our AWDs because the AWD is so dang good. Snow tires were absolutely required on our 4WD and 2WD cars. AWD or snow tires, I am mindful of stopping distance.

I will always choose AWD for the snow. Then add snow tires if needed.

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#78

Post by supermatt »

Tor3 wrote: post #64
supermatt wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AWD != 4x4. AWD + traction control absolutely helps driving on snow and ice with appropriate tyres. If you are driving with summer tyres on ice, then of course you are going to be skittering all over the place. When going downhill on ice, again your tyres are going to make ALL the difference. You shouldnt be trying to stop going downhill on ice anyway. You should be descending at a constant and controlled speed.

It doesn't mean any difference when you're trying to slow down downhill. As you're saying, "your tyres are going to make ALL the difference." Which is exactly what I said - 4x4 or AWD doesn't help anything with that.

Well actually... 4x4 is worse for going downhill on ice. If one axle loses traction (which would be much more likely on summer tyres), the other can initiate a slide.

This is the exact reason people dont like 4x4 on ice. AWD (usually) lessens the problem - which is why i said they absolutely help with the correct tyres.

And again - DONT SLOW DOWN when going down hill. Your brakes WILL lock a wheel and you WILL slide. Slow down BEFORE you go downhill. If you havent experienced this truth, then you havent driven downhill on ice (which is preferable).

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#79

Post by sethammons »

jacobmarble wrote: post #37
analog31 wrote: post #25

Granted a passenger car is not a heavy truck or bus, but living in the upper Midwest, I've learned that snow tires make a huge difference for winter driving. I'd heard the folklore that snow tires are more important than all wheel drive for handling on both snow and ice, and having used them for a few years now, I'm a believer. So called "all season" tires are not snow tires. You can get a complete set of snow tires,…

Can confirm. I’ve owned front wheel and all wheel drive minivans, both with all season and proper snow tires. Snow tires are much more effective than all wheel drive, but having both is (obviously) better.

In my experience, AWD with no snow tires is better than 2WD with snow tires. AWD and snow tires is tops. YMMV. Source: Montana.

Re: Automatic snow tires throw chains at your wheels [video]

#80

Post by alkonaut »

supermatt wrote: post #73
alkonaut wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think of it more as an outdated distinction. First of all with motors on each wheel and no communication between front/rear in many cases, the distinction becomes blurry. Further many manufacturers have names like “AWD” (volvo and others) or “4matic” (MB) or “4motion” (VW) to label their take on more-than-2wd, whether or not their variant is awd or 4WD (or both) in the traditional sense. Some "AWD" models will be e…

Its not outdated. There may be multiple variations on AWD (as i mentioned, some can vary power to individual wheels, rather than just the axles), but 4WD (or 4x4) is categorically not AWD.

Doesn't traction control further blur that? Given that traction control is now required almost everywhere, and involves cutting power to individual wheels (Not like ESP using brakes), at what point does traction control cutting power to individual wheels or axles dynamically in a 4x4/4WD system make it an "AWD" instead?

Perhaps those vehicles that use 4x4 in the tradtional sense are such that you have to engage it and that effectively cuts also any traction control - and then you disengage for normal driving?

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