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Curvature consistency in Apple hardware and software products (2017)

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Re: Curvature consistency in Apple hardware and software products (2017)

#71
post #23

The curvature combs are confusing to me. Is this equivalent to saying that Apple’s rounded corners have a continuous second derivative while naïve rounded corners only have a continuous first derivative but a discontinuous second derivative? Or am I misunderstanding this?

That is roughly correct. For a curve with smooth parametrization f(t) = (x(t), y(t)), with f'(t) ≠ 0 for all t, the curvature at the point f(t) is defined to be κ := |(f'(t)/|f'(t)|)'| -- the magnitude of the first derivative of the unit tangent vector. This is a nonnegative quantity, and is well defined, that is, independent of the specific parametrization of the curve (as legosexmagic said, you need to do something…

Oops, my mistake: that is not the definition of curvature! The outer derivative must be taken with respect to arclength, rather than with respect to t.

Re: Curvature consistency in Apple hardware and software products (2017)

#72
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes & it doesn’t work very well. Or at least it didn‘t, Apple has been notorious for sacrificing good strain relief on their cables in pursuit of aesthetics for years. Possibly things have improved now that Ive has left, but there was a period a few years ago when everyone I knew with a Macbook had wrapped the power cable in electrical tape because the cable housing had failed just above the (useless) strain relief s…

I think it was less the strain relief and more the rubber they used. It would go gummy and fall apart after a few years. I absolutely remember around 2013 everyones MacBook charger would fail like this. But they have changed the design a lot since then so I no longer think this is an issue. The brick is now usb c so you can swap the cable without needing an expensive brick, and the MagSafe cables they now include are…

The USB-C charging cable from the 2020 M1 Macbook still has the issue of straining just after the strain relief. It's not a good cable. The only good thing about it is that is a standard cable and you can replace it with a more reliable one.

Whether the cables with the braided sleeve are better is something that remains to be seen.

Re: Curvature consistency in Apple hardware and software products (2017)

#73
post #8

The curvature is not unique to apple though. This is widely used in car manufacturing for example. Turns out not having a hard transition between no curvature (straight surface) and some kind of radius (so a curvature of 1/r) looks like shit on very reflective surfaces, because a perfect flat mirror suddenly transitions into a stretched or squashed one. So you can go and make those transitions flawless by making sure…

> So you can go and make those transitions flawless by making sure the curvature combs transition into each other as well (basically a set of spaced out lines which you draw perpendicular to the line in question where the magnitude equals the curvature).

Would this be like the illustrations in the article labled "curvature comb showing tangency" and "cuvature comb showing curvature continuity"?

Re: Curvature consistency in Apple hardware and software products (2017)

#74
Related:

Apple’s Icons Have That Shape for a Very Good Reason - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16294455 - Feb 2018 (5 comments)

Apple’s Icons Have That Shape for a Very Good Reason - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13484728 - Jan 2017 (5 comments)

Re: Curvature consistency in Apple hardware and software products (2017)

#75
post #8

The curvature is not unique to apple though. This is widely used in car manufacturing for example. Turns out not having a hard transition between no curvature (straight surface) and some kind of radius (so a curvature of 1/r) looks like shit on very reflective surfaces, because a perfect flat mirror suddenly transitions into a stretched or squashed one. So you can go and make those transitions flawless by making sure…

Ok, we've taken uniqueness out of the title above.

(Submitted title was "Apple's Unique Device Curvature". I assume that rewrite was intended to replace the linkbaitiness of the article title, which is in keeping with the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

Re: Curvature consistency in Apple hardware and software products (2017)

#76
post #24
post #23

The curvature combs are confusing to me. Is this equivalent to saying that Apple’s rounded corners have a continuous second derivative while naïve rounded corners only have a continuous first derivative but a discontinuous second derivative? Or am I misunderstanding this?

Isn't this sort of thing common in the automotive industry?

It's very common on railways.

You don't want a train to suddenly experience a sideways force as it enters a curve. So the 2nd derivative of the position, acceleration, should not instantly go from 0 to a constant, instead, it should grow smoothly, like pictured in TFA. So you want a non-zero 3rd derivative, and possibly even a non-zero 4th derivative.

Cubic splines of course give you a nice 3rd derivative. In fact, you can't make a perfect circle using cubic splines, because of that. Draw your device's shape in Illustrator or Inkscape, and you likely make it Apple-like :)

Re: Curvature consistency in Apple hardware and software products (2017)

#78

This is all very standard stuff in product design. It’s more just a surprise to UI designers because 2D design tools are very poor and don’t include superellipse as an option.

I recall this being annoying for me as an app developer trying to perfect the app icon. You upload the app icon as a square image, and Apple applies the round corners when they distribute it. I wanted to preview how it’d look on the App Store (back when every app submission would take weeks to get approved), but found the rounded corners from GIMP just didn’t match. At least they had stopped applying gloss effects by then which totally ruined the colors.

Re: Curvature consistency in Apple hardware and software products (2017)

#79
post #76
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this sort of thing common in the automotive industry?

It's very common on railways. You don't want a train to suddenly experience a sideways force as it enters a curve. So the 2nd derivative of the position, acceleration, should not instantly go from 0 to a constant, instead, it should grow smoothly, like pictured in TFA. So you want a non-zero 3rd derivative, and possibly even a non-zero 4th derivative. Cubic splines of course give you a nice 3rd derivative. In fact, y…

See also "Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore"

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32005421

Re: Curvature consistency in Apple hardware and software products (2017)

#80
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For at least one gen of MacBooks (maybe the ill-fated 2016 MacBook Pros?), this was actually a design fault. In the battle for thinness there was not enough separation between screen and keys when closed, leading to damage to screen coating over time. Newer versions had a slightly larger rubber lip on the screen to increase the separation - as I noticed after getting a replacement for a damaged model

I now have the M1 MacBook Pro and it still has that issue.

I had an M1 pro and have an M1 air, both with screen protectors (that are matte but quick to show smudges) and haven't noticed this.
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