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Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

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Re: Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

#71
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stopping the swatter doesn't do much, and still allows for people to be swatted. The thing that needs an overhaul is the decision making on when to actually send out the swat team. It's lazy, expensive, and dangerous to send them out for every opportunity without any investigation

> Stopping the swatter doesn't do much, and still allows for people to be swatted. A record of high profile cases where swatters get caught and incarcerated would be a great deterrent.

Sure but the ultimate perpetrator of the violence in these cases is the police. We can solve the swatting problem and other serious problems simultaneously by stopping the police from bursting in to peoples homes with guns blazing and other unnecessary behaviors.

Specifically police need to learn about time, distance, and cover. Arrive on the scene and take cover a safe distance away from the perceived threat. Take time to identify the perceived threat and confirm they are really a danger. Only then should they attempt to deal with the threat if it actually proves to be one. This would have saved the life of Tamir Rice, a harmless child who was shot by a police officer who had not even finished stopping his car when he shot and killed the unarmed 12 year old. This would have saved the life of 22 year old John Crawford III who was shot by a police officer at WalMart. Crawford had picked up an un-packaged BB gun and then continued shopping. Someone misunderstood the situation and called the police. When officers arrived they ignored the lack of distress among other customers which should have been present, and fired shots at Crawford almost immediately upon entering the store.

There are many accounts like this. Police behavior leads to many unnecessary deaths and swatting is only a threat because of police failing to assess a situation firsthand.

Re: Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

#72
post #8
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stopping the swatter doesn't do much, and still allows for people to be swatted. The thing that needs an overhaul is the decision making on when to actually send out the swat team. It's lazy, expensive, and dangerous to send them out for every opportunity without any investigation

If the authorities are too slow to respond they get crucified (extreme case: Uvalde, Texas school shooting earlier this year where the cops sat paralyzed while children were actively being murdered by a gunman). I don't like the five-oh but going the route you're proposing will make some instances much worse with avoidable loss of life.

There is a middle ground between, for example the shooting of Tamir Rice, where the officer shot and killed this innocent 12 year old boy before his police car had even come to a stop, and Uvalde where police stood around for an hour. Police should take time to observe the situation (this could be 30 seconds), take cover a safe distance away (this was not done with Tamir Rice), confirm the threat is real, attempt to de-escalate, and shoot only if necessary. We see in many cases police burst on to the scene and shoot almost immediately, and this leads to unnecessary death.

Re: Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

#73
post #38
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proving attempted murder is very difficult, but "SWATting" already falls under the broad umbrella of 'assault'. It seems like the police are likely guilty of criminal negligence as well.

Genuinely curious: What is the crime if I shoot a gun at a house knowing that it is occupied?it seems obvious that if I kill an occupant it would be murder, but what happens if I don’t?

In places where there are strong gun laws, like Queensland, you have offences relating to the weapon, separate laws for damaging the building and circumstances of aggravation if you do some real damage with risk of loss of life

WEAPONS ACT 1990 - SECT 78 Weapons not to be discharged or operated - a fine- but also usually, a range of offences related to use, possession, storage of the weapon and ammunition

CRIMINAL CODE 1899 - SECT 69 Going armed so as to cause fear (1) Any person who goes armed in public without lawful occasion in such a manner as to cause fear to any person is guilty of a misdemeanour, and is liable to imprisonment for 2 years.

469 Wilful damage (1) Any person who wilfully and unlawfully destroys or damages any property is guilty of an offence which, unless otherwise stated, is a misdemeanour, and the person is liable, if no other punishment is provided, to imprisonment for 5 years.

Punishment in special cases 1 Destroying or damaging premises by explosion If— (a) the property in question is premises; and (b) the destruction or damage is caused by an explosion; and (c) either— (i) anyone is in or on the premises when the explosion happens; or (ii) the destruction or damage actually endangers anyone’s life; the offender commits a crime. Penalty— Maximum penalty—life imprisonment.

but what you will find is that this sort of activity rarely happens randomly- usually there is a relationship between the victim and the attacker- so something related to stalking, extortion (demanding money with menaces) etc. And those all carry heavy possible penalties. (5 years, 7 years etc)

Re: Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

#74
Hacked Ring Cams Used to Record Swatting Victims : https://krebsonsecurity.com/2022/12/hacked-ring-cams-used-to...

(2017) Thugs who sent Brian Krebs heroin and a SWAT team sentenced : https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2017/02/21/thugs-who-sent-b...

SWATting - Krebs on Security : https://krebsonsecurity.com/tag/swatting/

Re: Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the rest of the world loaded up to the gills with weapons? There's 1.2 guns per citizen...

Well, that's because we have to protect ourselves from SWAT teams!

The funny thing is, while "to protect yourself from government tyranny" is the favorite phrase of gun enthusiasts and gun lobbies in this country, whenever a citizen uses a gun in justifiable defense against police (the most recent notable one being Breonna Taylor's case) these same people side with the police every time.

Re: Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

#76
post #38
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proving attempted murder is very difficult, but "SWATting" already falls under the broad umbrella of 'assault'. It seems like the police are likely guilty of criminal negligence as well.

Genuinely curious: What is the crime if I shoot a gun at a house knowing that it is occupied?it seems obvious that if I kill an occupant it would be murder, but what happens if I don’t?

Not a lawyer, but if you intentionally shoot a gun at somebody and miss, that's attempted murder. Just because there's a house in the way doesn't change that, if the prosecutor wants to play it that way.

Re: Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

#78
Am no defend-the-blue type of person but all of you claiming that the police turn up with excessive force for swatting need to educate yourself. Please watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IFPRyFW9F4

These swatters want the police to turn up and use deadly force. They use voice & call scramblers to call the police. The swatters tell the dispatchers that they are mentally unstable / psychotic and have already killed multiple family members and are ready to inflict more damage. Dispatchers have very little time / training to identify if this call is authentic. They just relay the information to the cops who turn up expecting to face a hail of bullets.

Re: Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

#79
post #4

I hope that at some point swatting becomes a felony akin to attempted murder.

Why is it always boys and men who do swatting?

Women invented "school shootings" though! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Elementary_School_sh...
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