Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

R/ElonJetTracker

old.reddit.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 110 posts

Re: R/ElonJetTracker

#71

Post by altacc »

throw0101c wrote: post #68
altacc wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure I qualify as a spokesperson for the entire “left” ;) It seems a lot of people are pointing out the massive amounts of hypocrisy Elon is displaying, as well as how fickle & fragile the concept of free speech is when it comes up against the personal opinions of a billionaire. Plus a democratic vote, which is definitely not what a Twitter poll is, controlling speech is exactly the thing that many on the (if…

> It seems a lot of people are pointing out the massive amounts of hypocrisy Elon is displaying, as well as how fickle & fragile the concept of free speech is when it comes up against the personal opinions of a billionaire. As Peter Kafka (heh) wrote over at Vox : > But I think we’re better off if we face reality on reality’s terms: One of the richest men in history bought something many of us use and like. Because h…

Indeed. The whole point all along was that Twitter as a private company could moderate content as it saw fit. Let us now try and score some internet points by pointing out that the new buyer disagreed with that idea enough to spend $44 billion to correct it. However once it was their private company and their opinions that could control the content, suddenly that idea of private control of a private entity is excellent and as it should be! This is simply one person changing their very publicly and steadfastly held opinion once the facts align to their own benefit.

Re: R/ElonJetTracker

#72

Post by wizeman »

ArchitectAnon wrote: post #65
superjan wrote: post #36

Wouldn’t a 24 hour delay be enough to satisfy the curious about Elon’s flying habits, without creating a possible security risk? I don’t know how real the risk is, but it is certainly not zero, as he is a controversial public figure.

ADS-B information is broadcast unencrypted in real time from every civilian aircraft all the time. Anyone can receive this information with easily available equipment and tell everyone about it on a website. I don’t think it’s technically possible to censor this information. If you’re worried about someone shooting you down or whatever then you’re going to have to find a different way to counter this. Maybe fit count…

> ADS-B information is broadcast unencrypted in real time from every civilian aircraft all the time.

ADS-B information is available publicly, but what's not always available publicly is which aircraft (or rather, which aircraft identifier) belongs to whom.

Specifically, if an aircraft is subscribed to this program, then it receives a new temporary identifier every month, unconnected to the owner:

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy

And Elon's jet is subscribed to this program, as confirmed by Elon himself: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603803508087537665

So I think the problem is not tracking some airplane, the problem is connecting an airplane identifier to its owner by other means and then publicly broadcasting that information (i.e. make it easily accessible), when its owner has requested the government for privacy protection under a government program which was specifically designed to provide that exact type of privacy protection.

Re: R/ElonJetTracker

#73

Post by wizeman »

superjan wrote: post #36

Wouldn’t a 24 hour delay be enough to satisfy the curious about Elon’s flying habits, without creating a possible security risk? I don’t know how real the risk is, but it is certainly not zero, as he is a controversial public figure.

> Wouldn’t a 24 hour delay be enough to satisfy the curious about Elon’s flying habits, without creating a possible security risk? I don’t know how real the risk is, but it is certainly not zero, as he is a controversial public figure.

I agree with you, but I think the problem is that if you publish Elon's flying habits with a 24 hour delay, then you're effectively doxxing which airplane is Elon's jet, which would allow anyone to track Elon's jet in real-time for the next month, basically.

This could be somewhat avoided if Elon's jet received a temporary private aircraft identifier for every flight (instead of every month, which is how it works currently [1]).

But even then, if the airplane landed on a small airport (i.e. with few aircraft on the ground), it would still be possible to determine whether an airplane that is taking off is Elon's jet or not, based on the fact that Elon's jet landed there on the previous day and the destination for today's flight is [some place where Elon commonly flies to].

[1] https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy

Re: R/ElonJetTracker

#74

Post by wizeman »

_Algernon_ wrote: post #52
charcircuit wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most doxxing is publically available information.

In most other cases that has been released illegitimately in the first place though. That's not the case here. The information is publicly available because it is mandated to be as a condition of flying. Leaked private information is obviously different. This is just a case of a billionaire with a god complex wanting to have his cake and eat it too.

> The information is publicly available because it is mandated to be as a condition of flying.

No, it's not.

Elon's jet receives a private temporary aircraft identifier unconnected to its owner every month, because it is subscribed to this program: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy

This government program was specifically designed to hide the link between an aircraft identifier and the owner of the aircraft.

If the link between Elon Musk and the aircraft identifier he flies with was meant to be publicly available, why does this program exist in the first place?

Re: R/ElonJetTracker

#75

Post by wizeman »

_kbh_ wrote: post #43
nerdawson wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have agreed and recently made the same argument on HN re the Twitter bans. What I’ve since learned however is that tracking his jet requires a combination of public and private information. He’s part of a privacy scheme which routinely changes the plane’s identifier: https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidSacks/status/160385752457453... At that point, I think the argument that it’s doxxing is justified to some exten…

> What I’ve since learned however is that tracking his jet requires a combination of public and private information. He’s part of a privacy scheme which routinely changes the plane’s identifier: https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidSacks/status/160385752457453 ... My understanding is that he _stopped_ using this service and now his plane broadcasts the same tail number all the time.

> My understanding is that he _stopped_ using this service and now his plane broadcasts the same tail number all the time.

Where is your understanding coming from?

Elon Musk himself confirmed 2 days ago that he is using that privacy scheme: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603803508087537665

Re: R/ElonJetTracker

#77

Post by wizeman »

wutwutwutwut wrote: post #69
dvhh wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's the defense used by most "doxxing" website.

I wouldn't know. The person I replied to claimed that it was "private information of individuals". If it's public info by law then referring to it as private seems very misleading, wouldn't you say?

> If it's public info by law then referring to it as private seems very misleading, wouldn't you say?

But it's not public information by law. It's private information:

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy

The aircraft tracking data itself is public, but what's not public is the information which links the temporary aircraft identifier to its owner when the owner is using that privacy program, which is the case for Elon: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603803508087537665

Re: R/ElonJetTracker

#79

Post by philistine »

wizeman wrote: post #72
ArchitectAnon wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADS-B information is broadcast unencrypted in real time from every civilian aircraft all the time. Anyone can receive this information with easily available equipment and tell everyone about it on a website. I don’t think it’s technically possible to censor this information. If you’re worried about someone shooting you down or whatever then you’re going to have to find a different way to counter this. Maybe fit count…

> ADS-B information is broadcast unencrypted in real time from every civilian aircraft all the time. ADS-B information is available publicly, but what's not always available publicly is which aircraft (or rather, which aircraft identifier) belongs to whom. Specifically, if an aircraft is subscribed to this program, then it receives a new temporary identifier every month, unconnected to the owner: https://www.faa.gov/…

You're completely sidestepping the issue that the man is amongst the richest in the world, so the whereabouts of his private plane could be argued to be of public interest. Keep this in mind as well; his plane's whereabouts are being derived from obscured data and published. Not his own personal whereabouts. We don't know what car he takes and where he goes once he lands. What is he scared of? A scud missile?

For example, we know his plane is in Quatar. With the news he is trying to sell shares of Twitter at his purchased price, we now can investigate whether he is talking to Quataris about selling shares. Being amongst the richest and owning a social network puts you in the public eye.

Re: R/ElonJetTracker

#80

Post by _djo_ »

wizeman wrote: post #72
ArchitectAnon wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADS-B information is broadcast unencrypted in real time from every civilian aircraft all the time. Anyone can receive this information with easily available equipment and tell everyone about it on a website. I don’t think it’s technically possible to censor this information. If you’re worried about someone shooting you down or whatever then you’re going to have to find a different way to counter this. Maybe fit count…

> ADS-B information is broadcast unencrypted in real time from every civilian aircraft all the time. ADS-B information is available publicly, but what's not always available publicly is which aircraft (or rather, which aircraft identifier) belongs to whom. Specifically, if an aircraft is subscribed to this program, then it receives a new temporary identifier every month, unconnected to the owner: https://www.faa.gov/…

Musk is lying.

This is what an aircraft in the PIA programme looks like. https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a0fe01

Note the 'PIA' flag and lack of additional information that would normally be pulled from the registry. In fact if you searched the registry for A0FE01 you would not find the actual aircraft but a placeholder.

Musk uses three jets, N628TS, N272BG, and N502SX. None are in the PIA programme, all are easily visible on ADSB Exchange and most importantly have their ICAO hex codes listed publicly on the FAA registry, along with ownership information.

So please, let's stop repeating this false claim.

N628TS:

https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af

https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResul...

N272BG:

https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a2ae0a

https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResul...

N502SX:

https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a64304

https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResul...

Post reply on HN