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No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime
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Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime
#72It's absurd that people will show their sick pets more compassion than fellow human beings when animals can't even voice their opinions on the matter. If someone sound of mind chooses to die, that should be their right.
I don't know if people view euthanasia as being more compassionate towards their pets. I think many people view it as being selfish. Killing the pet to avoid the hassle of dealing with it's illness and avoid the expense of it's medical care. I don't particularly agree, I think it can be compassionate but also understand where this view comes from.
Every dog owner I’ve talked to about the end of life of their prior pets mentions how hard it was to let go. The selfish act is to preserve the relationship with your pet for your own emotional needs, and peace comes once you acknowledge the suffering of the animal.
The expense of medical care for pets is often the wrong way of looking at it. A dog doesn’t understand chemotherapy, it only knows it feels really sick. It doesn’t understand invasive surgery, it just knows pain, and wearing the cone of shame. Dogs don’t have the same inner life that we do, so a lot of medical interventions would cause a lot of suffering for what, a few months more life?
And if you don’t want the hassle of dealing with a pet’s illness, don’t get a pet. The relationship you build with a pet should make you understand you owe them your loyalty in the bad times, not just the good.
Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime
#73Seems like a stretching propaganda hit piece from the anti-abortion crowd stretching into calling the "current" Canadian Government in power a "regime" that kills poor people by...get this...convincing doctors to convincingly get poor and unhealthy people to go past every fucking alarm bell and human instinct and literally kill themselves with their assistance to somehow be less of a burden on the state? Somehow a sm…
I suggest you do a little reading. I'm Canadian and it's alarming. It's already apparently 2.5% of deaths in Canada. https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assi... We have credible reports of a person aged 23 who was approved for medically assisted death because they were diabetic and depressed. https://www.thefp.com/p/scheduled-to-die-the-rise-of-canadas The top 1% of patients use approximately 30%…
> I suggest you do a little reading
You're of course welcome to be on either side of this issue, but please edit swipes like that out of your comments here. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
(Your comment would be fine without that bit.)
Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have bad news for you. You will never gain the ability to pick and choose what your taxes fund, and the other people paying taxes have entirely different sets of important things that they wish to fund, and different sets of things that they are horrified that their taxes are supporting.
I'm actually kind of able to pick where my taxes are going. By moving to other countries. Surely, Canada is not going to be on the list.
Bye Felicia
Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime
#75>One of the greatest reasons for concern is the sheer scale of Canada’s euthanasia regime. California provides a useful point of comparison: It legalized medically assisted death the same year as Canada, 2016, and it has about the same population, just under forty million. In 2021 in California, 486 people died using the state’s assisted suicide program. In Canada in the same year, 10,064 people used MAID to die. 70%…
"It sounds like thousands of Californians are experiencing unnecessary and extended end of life suffering." Why is that your take? Why isn't it "Thousands of Canadians are being killed too soon in an effort to save the government money"? or some other take? We already have stories of Canada asking Veterans to join "MAID" instead of getting a wheelchair...
> Why isn't it "Thousands of Canadians are being killed too soon in an effort to save the government money"?
Because nobody's made that case.
Making a case requires evidence. Not handwaving and appeals to movie plots.
> We already have stories of Canada asking Veterans to join "MAID" instead of getting a wheelchair...
As long as we're trading conspiracy theories, the person who reported that was paid off by the right wing to make MAID seem horrible, and therefore something that should be ended, and my conspiracy theory has a lot more going for it than yours does.
Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime
#76>One of the greatest reasons for concern is the sheer scale of Canada’s euthanasia regime. California provides a useful point of comparison: It legalized medically assisted death the same year as Canada, 2016, and it has about the same population, just under forty million. In 2021 in California, 486 people died using the state’s assisted suicide program. In Canada in the same year, 10,064 people used MAID to die. 70%…
"It sounds like thousands of Californians are experiencing unnecessary and extended end of life suffering." Why is that your take? Why isn't it "Thousands of Canadians are being killed too soon in an effort to save the government money"? or some other take? We already have stories of Canada asking Veterans to join "MAID" instead of getting a wheelchair...
[deleted]
Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are cases where people do want to live but are counseled into suicide.
Being counselled to suicide should be ineffective if they want to live, no? This isn’t a 30 hour police interrogation without food, water, or sleep. Options are presented, and in some cases living with the debilitating sickness is worse than suicide. I think if they want to live, it is likely they want to live if the debilitating illness wasn’t there, but given that fact they choose death.
"Being counselled to suicide should be ineffective if they want to live, no?"
It should but it's possible to push real hard. There are literally TV interviews where MAID participants are like "I would like to live but they convinced me it's for the better"
I'm actually personally fine with counseling people to die, even moderately aggressively. In many cases it's the right thing to do and we should probably be doing it more. The problem is that when there is a conflict of interest because the org that is telling you to die is the org that benefits from it.
Given this conflict at best the Canadian government should be providing death services for free and mentioning it is an option. And that's it. They should be letting other nonprofit orgs with no funding from the govt counsel people to die.
Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime
#78The whole argument against MAID feels ridiculously like the anti-abortion position. The other option to providing it is having them end their life in a way that might be risky or fail to succeed in a way that leaves them painfully scarred for life or suffering more than they had to. Why are people forced to live if they don't want to?
There are cases where people do want to live but are counseled into suicide.
You mean there was one case - and we quickly learned that person was being paid by a right wing organization to do so.
Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime
#79The whole argument against MAID feels ridiculously like the anti-abortion position. The other option to providing it is having them end their life in a way that might be risky or fail to succeed in a way that leaves them painfully scarred for life or suffering more than they had to. Why are people forced to live if they don't want to?
> Why are people forced to live if they don't want to? Because we live in a society , not some libertarian utopia of sovereign citizens. Your life doesn’t belong only to yourself, but it belongs to all of us. Your parents, your kids, your friends, your acquaintances. We are all affected by what you do to yourself and, concomitantly, get a say in it.
Bodily autonomy is not a libertarian -only ideal, and the way you've phrased it comes across as some sort of extreme collectivism. I'm curious if anyone has a name for this philosophy.
Re: No Other Options: Newly revealed documents depict Canadian euthanasia regime
#80>One of the greatest reasons for concern is the sheer scale of Canada’s euthanasia regime. California provides a useful point of comparison: It legalized medically assisted death the same year as Canada, 2016, and it has about the same population, just under forty million. In 2021 in California, 486 people died using the state’s assisted suicide program. In Canada in the same year, 10,064 people used MAID to die. 70%…
Cancers vary significantly in prognosis.
Canada has over double the number of deaths due to lung cancer and nearly double the deaths due to colorectal cancer compared to California.
Essentially cancer looks different in California than Canada. This makes drawing conclusions that there are thousands suffering unnecessarily extended end of life experiences difficult.
https://cancerstatisticscenter.cancer.org/#!/state/Californi...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9067380/#!po=28...