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6 month read-through/discussion of Gödel, Escher, Bach starting 1/17 on Reddit

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Re: 6 month read-through/discussion of Gödel, Escher, Bach starting 1/17 on Reddit

#71

Post by tseabrooks »

spelunker wrote: post #66
tseabrooks wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good question; and is really the heart of my question... What do we need to put together to create something good for this... I would invision is as akin to a meetup group only virtual. Here's a quick list of things you might want (With no claims about whether or not they already exist): 1) Real time communication along with some async comm. -Real time comm needs to be archived in a readable form 2) Method f…

Shoot, Google Wave probably solves/solved half of those. I always considered the platform being good for a pen-and-paper RPG, but a virtual book club would probably work too! A starting point, anyway :-)

I thought about google wave when I was typing that. I actually use google wave pretty regularly with friends. We're setting up a server to house our personal apache Wave deployment now that google is shutting it down.

Re: 6 month read-through/discussion of Gödel, Escher, Bach starting 1/17 on Reddit

#72

Post by jmilloy »

tseabrooks wrote: post #65
jmilloy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think forums have served this problem for over a decade. Voting systems on comments and nested comments like slashdot and here and reddit are just an improvement on forums. So what are these formats lacking for you? (I agree they could probably be improved by specific changes for online book groups)

That's a good question; and is really the heart of my question... What do we need to put together to create something good for this... I would invision is as akin to a meetup group only virtual. Here's a quick list of things you might want (With no claims about whether or not they already exist): 1) Real time communication along with some async comm. -Real time comm needs to be archived in a readable form 2) Method f…

Many of these things are great ways to improve forums in general (hence google wave, perhaps).

For example, integrating async and real time is an interesting problem. I've also thought about this with respect to my gmail account. Some emails are one-off questions, but others are an ongoing dialogue which start to blend with chat. There is a continuum there.

Something else I've wanted is the ability to easily, within the site, branch off a discussion with a specific person on subgroup. Sometimes you want outside input, but it can be easier to get into a deep discussion if you are both reading responses carefully and following up. However, in that way, anonymous wouldn't work.

Considering 2 and 7 - I'd love to have such a system used in any course. Blackboard tries to be this, but is clunky, and others I'm sure exist. I imagine, rather than an outline, a real-time web/map (in fact, a sort of hierarchical tag cloud representing importance and relationship) that grows as ideas are added, with more detailed discussions under different headings.

For the most part, I wouldn't worry about spoilers. The most valuable discussions I've had regarding literature have been: read the book first, then read it a second time, together in pieces, and discuss along the way.

Re: 6 month read-through/discussion of Gödel, Escher, Bach starting 1/17 on Reddit

#73

Post by haberman »

zinkem wrote: post #68
haberman wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the opposite reaction: I lost faith in the book's analytical process only ten pages in, when Hofstadter claimed that Bach's canon was a "strange loop" simply because it modulates to a higher key. Sure, if you keep doing this you can get to the same key, an octave higher , but that's only because pitch itself is periodic, repeating the same notes every octave. There's nothing unique or mysterious about Bach's ca…

He's discussing our perception of the tones, you might want to check out this entry on wikpedia to understand what he's referring to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepard_tone This is a common concept in music synthesis, as you can create an endlessly rising 'melody' by repeating only 1 octave of some properly constructed timbres. This is the 'strange loop' he's referring to.

Bach's canon is not a Shepard tone. A Shepard tone would have been a more credible example of a "strange loop" than Bach's canon. But "Godel, Escher, Shepard" doesn't have the same ring to it.

Re: 6 month read-through/discussion of Gödel, Escher, Bach starting 1/17 on Reddit

#75

Post by JoyxBen »

riffraff wrote: post #18
JoyxBen wrote: post #14

If someone wants to start one for Hofstadter's most recent mega-book, Le Ton Beau De Marot, count me in.

I don't think it's the most recent, isn't 'i am a strange loop' a subsequent one? Anyway, I read it and it's awesome. It is a much more personal book than GEB though, and it's easy to grow weary of the poem tranations after the twentyeth, but it's a great reading.

I meant most recent "mega-book" since its a brick like GEB (but not sure of the size of "I am a strange loop", so maybe that's a brick too)

I can see how the poem translations can get weary, but they do a brilliant job of illustrating his ideas about translation way beyond poetry. I love how he generalizes the idea of translation into all sorts of non-language domains (i.e. translating ice skating skills to roller blading). Now to get past the current set of poems onto the next chapter ;)

Re: 6 month read-through/discussion of Gödel, Escher, Bach starting 1/17 on Reddit

#76

Post by rmc »

MarkPNeyer wrote: post #74

careful; some ideas in this book will fuck with you: http://www.reddit.com/r/BipolarReddit/comments/l7nij/interes...

Reminds me of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, in which the protagonist has a similar problem.

Re: 6 month read-through/discussion of Gödel, Escher, Bach starting 1/17 on Reddit

#77

Post by rmc »

redthrowaway wrote: post #10
brianwillis wrote: post #4

It's such a shame there isn't a Kindle/ePub/PDF version. I guess I'm off to kill another tree.

There's a pdf on tpb, so there should be a legitimate version somewhere.

Just because there is a PDF (or ePub etc.) of a book exists doesn't mean there is an official ebook. Some pirates scan books and either upload those each-page-is-one-image pdfs or (worse) they OCR these images andc upload that text.

Re: 6 month read-through/discussion of Gödel, Escher, Bach starting 1/17 on Reddit

#78

Post by rmc »

giardini wrote: post #51
rhodin wrote: post #11

It's the kind of book you can spend a few days reading or a life time, just like "Zen and the art of motorcycle repair". I've read half of it in 8 years, so maybe it's time to redo the whole process from beginning to end.

There are times when it would be nice to downvote a post and this is one of them. I would reread "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Art-Motorcycle-Maintenance-Inquiry... before I woud crack GEB open again. In fact I discarded GEB. My belief is that the Devil himself collects these discarded old volumes and passes them out as reading material to nerds in Hell. For 8 years you've been…

You can down vote comments when you have a high enough karma.

Re: 6 month read-through/discussion of Gödel, Escher, Bach starting 1/17 on Reddit

#79

Post by WhatsHisName »

JonnieCache wrote: post #60
irahul wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still can not make out whether you have read the book or not. You went to the same school as the author(I presume you mean the OP in the reddit thread), and you knew the professors who taught the guy didn't like the book. Is that all you are basing your opinion on? GEB isn't a physics book, so I don't see how "the professors who taught this guy" say matters - it's all too common that people don't like books that di…

I think he means he went to the same school as hofstadter.

That's correct.

Re: 6 month read-through/discussion of Gödel, Escher, Bach starting 1/17 on Reddit

#80

Post by Tycho »

lkozma wrote: post #30
JonnieCache wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a joke? I can only guess that you tried to read it, and didn't understand it.

Let's not dismiss the guy's opinion off-hand.. I also know people whose opinions I respect and who find GED pretentious and shallow. Personally, I found it extremely well written (although somewhat nonuniform) and extremely insightful as well. I just wish I had read it earlier, say, when I was 14, rather than after a CS education.

Why's that?
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