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New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

bbc.com

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Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#71

Post by thebooktocome »

avbanks wrote: post #13
Arubis wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a totally reasonable point. Interestingly, so is its inversion: "How thoughtful of the grown ups to prevent harm to other people, even knowing it won't save themselves."

But I don't understand that, if we're operating on under the premise that smoking is bad for all (which it is), then why not ban it for all now? Thats sets a horrible precedent.

Arresting ~20% of the Maori population (the number that smoke according to other comments in this thread) might not be received well.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#72

Post by thebooktocome »

FpUser wrote: post #42
jmclnx wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Alcohol is also objectively bad, why not implement this for alchohol? Well we both know that will never happen. But yes, alcohol is harmful but I think smoking is even more so. If Cost is NZ only concern, they can always charge more for healthcare for people who drink/smoke, price depends upon length of use. But we all know that will never work. Where I work, just about everyone when signing up for healthcare alway…

>"But yes, alcohol is harmful but I think smoking is even more so." I disagree. Also alcoholics harm many other people around them

See, I’m old enough to remember holding my breath to get past a throng of chain-smokers when they’d gas out a restaurant or clog the front of a store.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#73

Post by worik »

Matsta wrote: post #39

I mentioned this already in a comment, but although this is a good law, the price of cigarettes is so high that most people have already moved to disposable vapes, which you can get from any Dairy (Kiwi word for a corner shop). To top that off, Crime in NZ post covid has been pretty high, and Ram Raids (driving a stolen car through a shop front) are becoming more and more frequent. With cigarettes being so expensive,…

> Crime in NZ post covid has been pretty high

Crime in NZ has been trending downwards for over a decade. There has been an increase in certain types of crime, so if cherry picking, increasing crime can be made a thing. Not true tho.

> . A dairy worker was stabbed to death a few weeks ago by people...

They stole the cash register, not the cigarettes.

> Also, the price of groceries in NZ is extortionate

Yes. Far too high, a very profitable business with many barriers to entry

> combined with crappy wages (every man and his dog are moving to Aus to double their salary),

This man and dog is not leaving! That was true for many decades. Ever since the neoliberal reforms that were introduced in NZ with no planning or intelligence (cratered , but it has started to turn around recently. Wages going up in NZ and Ozzie is entering some sort of very strange twilight zone.

Is this a good law? It depends. Prohibition has a very bad history. This is a different approach, so maybe

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#74

Post by worik »

hedora wrote: post #45
blackoil wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> prohibition has always been a questionable idea Any data on it having counter effect on the actual consumption and prevelance? I believe are the negatives were secondary but it was effective in primary goals.

When the US raised the drinking age from 18 to 21, binge drinking in college skyrocketed. Alcohol producers are now some of the staunchest defenders of our current drinking age.

> Alcohol producers are now some of the staunchest defenders of our current drinking age

Is that true? That is astounding. I am inclined not to believe it

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#75

Post by standardUser »

megatest123 wrote: post #54
standardUser wrote: post #11

Not to worry, the (black) market always provides. It's almost like the government is abdicating their own responsibility for regulating markets and protecting public health, and instead sanctioning criminal activity to handle the issue.

Banning cigarettes is protecting public health

No, it is forcing people to buy unregulated products from illegal dealers. That sounds more dangerous to me.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#76

Post by justinclift »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #63
wintogreen74 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Canadian style widely encouraged assisted suicide model Canadian here; we're pretty much the polar opposite of our southern neighbours and I'd argue both of us are too extreme in our approach to health care, but I don't think you can accurately argue we have a "widely encouraged" model for ending your own life; except maybe compared to some states where life starts at ejaculation. There's a big difference between…

This man was encouraged to seek death by staff: https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/health/chronically-ill-man-rel... We see this type of abuse everywhere it is legalized.

> We see this type of abuse everywhere it is legalized.

Is that really the case though? The example you've highlighted there is indeed pretty crappy, but it's not evidence of the problem occuring "everywhere it is legalized".

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#77

Post by worik »

Matsta wrote: post #31
AlbertCory wrote: post #9

> New Zealand's smoking rate is already at historic lows, with just 8% of adults smoking daily according to government statistic released in November - down from 9.4% last year. if this was accomplished without prohibitions, how many negative consequences (black markets, organized crime, smuggling, adulterated cigarettes) is NZ willing to tolerate to get to zero? One would think that at some point, you get down to a…

Cigarettes are so expensive that no one really smokes them in NZ anyway, everyone has already moved to vapes. I doubt that there will be a black market for tobacco as, by the time you smuggle them in, they still won't be that cheap. Also, MPI (Ministry for Primary Industries) are even more strict on importing organic materials (or any biological for that matter) than Customs are on drugs. In saying that, there was a…

> Source: I'm Kiwi

Me too.

Last year I saw the first high quality black market tobacco.

Grown and processed locally.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#78

Post by worik »

b800h wrote: post #37
barbazoo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you do differently to solve the problem?

There isn't a problem.

There is a huge problem.

Young people are still taking up smoking in large numbers.

It is not uniform: The children of smokers are much more likely to smoke.

I am unsure this is the correct approach, but the health and economic impacts are huge.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#79

Post by petodo »

As nonsmoker I'm strongly against this, when did alcohol prohibition, war on drugs or their COVID restrictions worked? You will just anger people and it seems completely unnecessary considering there is steady decline in smokers and there are surely more dangerous issues to deal with, in case of NZ it would be pandemic of obesity.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#80

Post by worik »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #59
megatest123 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe it will have all sorts of negative consequences out of the public light and control. Can you please name some?

War on drugs etc.

This is more of "Serious spanking" on drugs, hardly "war".
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