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Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

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Re: Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

#71

> Decision-making in cooperatives can be very daunting for beginners. Having 13 years+ of experience in cooperatives I can tell you that it is daunting even for old-timers. We started off with most decisions being made in weekly meeting (that sometimes dragged on for most of the day), and ended up with having monthly meetings for the large decisions, but weekly meetings in smaller groups instead. In short, meetings e…

"Too many meetings" is a problem many companies have. It's an efficiency problem. There are ways to reduce or even eliminate too many meetings.

Re: Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

#72
Some of the worst politics I ever saw were in nonprofit entities.

Primarily, it was because some with dominant personalities made decisions that were not rational, informed, and or fair. The faithful talent tend to get hurt the most, as they invest more resources being driven by their ideals.

I am all for profit sharing, but someone has to take responsibility for risk mitigation. The worst firms are ones where every narcissist thinks they are the CEO. The more money at stake... the quicker things tend to turn nasty.

Best of luck =)

Re: Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

#73
I've been looking for something like that for a long time. I still remember someone remarking to me at Schmoo that one day I'll need a "real bank" rather than a credit union, and how cold they got when I replied "Well, I've got savings, checking, they give a good rate on home loans, and while you can't beat the market I'm getting about 9% on my index funds. Other than help you cheat on your taxes, what specifically does Chase Manhattan do that [redacted] does not?"

He replied "Things like that are why you'll never find a real job." and stormed off.

(I was trying to escape my PhD at the time, but the world being what it was in the Summmer after Snowden, somehow the only offer I got was a K Street NGO, and absolutely zero companies that would pay me a fair wage for my labor.)

Anyways, if anyone is looking for something with information security experience for their co-op feel free to reply -- I'd love to log out of this nym, which was supposed to only last for a weekend in Las Vegas, forever, but I can not do that until I complete my... mission.

Re: Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

#74

Some of the worst politics I ever saw were in nonprofit entities. Primarily, it was because some with dominant personalities made decisions that were not rational, informed, and or fair. The faithful talent tend to get hurt the most, as they invest more resources being driven by their ideals. I am all for profit sharing, but someone has to take responsibility for risk mitigation. The worst firms are ones where every…

> Some of the worst politics I ever saw were in nonprofit entities.

Same.

Re: Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

#75
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of the commercial success of coops, your premise that the main reason for work is money does not hold up to scrutiny. If merely adequately compensated, money turns out to be really low on the list of things that actually motivates people.

If this is true why do well paying companies have their pick of employees and less well paying ones have to take their left overs? I exaggerate for effect but most companies don’t have anything like an attractive mission so they need to compete on pay, somewhat on benefits, but overwhelmingly on pay. Google and Goldman have no trouble hiring.

The well paying companies have no trouble hiring someone good, but I wouldn't say they have "their pick" of employees. There are a lot of people out there who politely decline or ignore every approach from FAANG recruiters, for example, because the mission or company are unattractive and high pay doesn't make up for it.

So from a statistical perspective you can say that paying well means they have a lot of people to choose from. But some types of mission are greatly affected by the few particular people who are really specialised or inspired in some area or another, and those people aren't always willing to give up their personal dreams to work for an unattractive company just for a larger pay packet.

Re: Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

#76
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you believe a cooperative would have been better?

The startup went bust during the dot com bubble bursting when our series B fell through (like everyone else). I think a cooperative would be more future proof and not having a binary result. In general I prefer cooperative work and have experienced too much antogonistic work in startups.

But why would the cooperative have survive and why is it less prone to antagonistic work?

Re: Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

#77
post #14
post #6

Nowhere did he mention salary levels. The main reason we work is to make money, if worker cooperatives makes you less money then that would be the biggest reason to not join one. I really doubt there are many cooperatives paying more than FAANG, so why not just join one of those instead?

Regardless of the commercial success of coops, your premise that the main reason for work is money does not hold up to scrutiny. If merely adequately compensated, money turns out to be really low on the list of things that actually motivates people.

I see this claim a lot in different contexts, and personally have never quite understood who it really talks about.

It cannot talk about everyone, because there are many different kinds of people and work sectors. I'd expect the motivational priorities to exist on a continuum, on which some people are more motivated by money than others. Also, the "adequate compensation" varies from person to person; some are happy with some level, some are never happy.

I mean, I find it extremely hard to believe that things like, say, "respect from co-workers" and "interesting work tasks" would factor in as the primary source of motivation for e.g. anyone working a low-paying job and living from paycheck to paycheck, regardless of who exactly (worker, employer, state, someone else) thinks the compensation is adequate. In contrast, for someone who already possesses a hefty surplus of money, obtaining more money probably plays a smaller role in the overall motivation.

However, none of this means that it's generalizeable to say all working people are not primarily motivated by money (or are primarily motivated, for that matter). One could just as well argue the opposite: (for some people) money turns out to be really high on the list of things which motivates them. Whichever way, it still is weird to claim this as an absolute, applying to everyone.

To put this into a more concrete context: a C-suite executive of a Fortune 500 company might say "money is not my primary motivation, energizing coffee machine discussions, personal fulfillment, yada yada" -- they already are on a level with plenty of material wealth and opportunities for recreation. In contrast, a single parent sanitary worker is unlikely to claim motivation comes from "I'm energized by the interesting work tasks" or something else than money; certainly they are motivated by being able to pay rent and buy food for their children and would rather have more money than less.

Re: Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

#79
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you believe a cooperative would have been better?

The startup went bust during the dot com bubble bursting when our series B fell through (like everyone else). I think a cooperative would be more future proof and not having a binary result. In general I prefer cooperative work and have experienced too much antogonistic work in startups.

sooo how being cooperative would get more money out of investors ? It looks like in that situation it wouldn't help

Re: Fired? Why cooperatives might be your next career choice in tech

#80
post #14
post #6

Nowhere did he mention salary levels. The main reason we work is to make money, if worker cooperatives makes you less money then that would be the biggest reason to not join one. I really doubt there are many cooperatives paying more than FAANG, so why not just join one of those instead?

Regardless of the commercial success of coops, your premise that the main reason for work is money does not hold up to scrutiny. If merely adequately compensated, money turns out to be really low on the list of things that actually motivates people.

Okay but coop also doesn't automatically mean your happiness in work will grew.

Some people will be perfectly happy working in a team with manager shielding them from most of the office politics vs pretty much having to take part in politics in coop

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