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Free Ross Ulbricht

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Re: Free Ross Ulbricht

#71

Post by yieldcrv »

root_axis wrote: post #30

Several posts on this thread (as well as TFA) have suggested the hitman for hire was slander to paint Ulbricht in a bad light. This is not true. > At the sentencing hearing, the district court resolved several disputed issues of fact. For example, because Ulbricht contested his responsibility for the five commissioned murders for hire, the district court found by a preponderance of the evidence that Ulbricht did in f…

All discord in his empire was fabricated by corrupt government agents who both served time for this, information that was kept from Ross and his defense and the jury during trial

The corrupt agents staged hits in a makeshift studio, just to extort money from Ross, use the money for personal gain such as landing a movie deal with Fox

Cases have been completely dropped for less

The prosecutor and judge found a strategy that is resilient, that doesn't make it correct

Re: Free Ross Ulbricht

#72

Post by scoofy »

Chernobog wrote: post #58
scoofy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The Silk Road was fine” -HN

While there are certainly problematic aspects of dark web markets, society do get some benefits. No physical contact between sellers and buyers, which reduces violence. Reviews of sellers and products makes it significantly easier to purchase safer drugs (for some drugs, adulterants and/or unpredictable potency are a bigger risk than the drug itself). This translates to fewer visits to the ER or morgue. Edit: My pers…

>This translates to fewer visits to the ER or morgue.

Yea, you seem confused, the funeral I went to was because my friends brother actually had really easy access to really great heroin. For a long time actually. Surprisingly easy to get delivered…

It was only after he was a full-on junkie estranged from his family after they’d basically given up any wealth they had for rehabs and his theft and violence that the “benefits,” as you call them, of the dark web markets might have mattered in the slightest.

No, no, don’t let me rain on anyone’s parade. Whether it’s heroin, or meth, or who knows? Maybe even sex workers of dubious age and consent! The dark web is just connecting willing customers with quality products.

Re: Free Ross Ulbricht

#73

Post by whatitmatteryo »

blackoil wrote: post #63
whatitmatteryo wrote: post #15

Yes! Free Ross! Think about all the little children who won't be turned into porn stars without his marketplace! It's not fair to them!

Don't worry about the kids, they have Youtube/Instagram and Tiktok, lot's of places for twerking semi-nude.

But it's not the same. Who wants to be exploited like an influencer when you can be the star of a creepy old man's sex videographer fantasies, before he kills you and hides your body.

That's the kind o freedom that heroes like Ross are protecting!

Re: Free Ross Ulbricht

#74

Post by root_axis »

yieldcrv wrote: post #68
weare138 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. While I do think his sentence was excessive that man was in no way innocent.

Whats validating about that? I don't think sentencing should be using information that wasn’t part of the charges or the conviction. I’ve seen prosecutors chose to be extremely strict about that, judges chose to be extremely about that, jurors say “we couldn't convict because we had to follow the prosecutor’s instructions”, and yet here the jury was swayed by actions unrelated to the charges in order to convict, and…

> I don't think sentencing should be using information that wasn’t part of the charges or the conviction. I’ve seen prosecutors chose to be extremely strict about that, judges chose to be extremely about that

The judge addressed this:

> The record was more than sufficient to support the district court's reliance on those attempted murders in sentencing Ulbricht to life in prison. The attempted murders for hire separate this case from that of an ordinary drug dealer, regardless of the quantity of drugs involved in the offense, and lend further support to the district court's finding that Ulbricht's conduct and character were exceptionally destructive. That he was able to distance himself from the actual violence he paid for by using a computer to order the killings is not mitigating. Indeed, the cruelty that he displayed in his casual and confident negotiations for the hits is unnerving. We thus cannot say that a life sentence was outside the “range of permissible decisions” under the circumstances. Cavera, 550 F.3d at 189.

Re: Free Ross Ulbricht

#75

Post by boomboomsubban »

root_axis wrote: post #30

Several posts on this thread (as well as TFA) have suggested the hitman for hire was slander to paint Ulbricht in a bad light. This is not true. > At the sentencing hearing, the district court resolved several disputed issues of fact. For example, because Ulbricht contested his responsibility for the five commissioned murders for hire, the district court found by a preponderance of the evidence that Ulbricht did in f…

I don't get this. The prosecutors decided not to press the hitman charges, so would the defense have even tried to gather evidence that it was false? Wouldn't that automatically make the preponderance of the evidence suggest his guilt, as only the evidence suggesting his guilt would have been presented?

Re: Free Ross Ulbricht

#76

Post by scoofy »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #64
jjallen wrote: post #40

This is a good lesson about not forgetting that much of life is not binary. Here we have someone who was convicted of doing illegal things. There is also strong evidence that he hired and paid someone to kill five people. So the question isn't free or don't free him. The question is "how long should he be in jail for?". There's a middle ground here. Many people, including the OP website just say "free" him. I don't k…

> And the answer to me, primarily because he was planning on killing five people is quite a long time. Would you agree that he shouldn't be in prison for the crimes he was convicted of at least? Because he wasn't tried or convicted of murder-for-hire (yet?)

He isn’t in prison for murder. He is in prison for operating possibly the largest illegal drug market to ever exist.

The conviction and sentencing limits are of course there for anyone to see.

Re: Free Ross Ulbricht

#77

Post by ddalex »

dachri wrote: post #54
blackshaw wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Wikipedia, Ulbricht allegedly tried to hire a hitman to murder at least five people, but this wasn't actually something he was formally charged with at trial. > Federal prosecutors alleged that Ulbricht had paid $730,000 in murder-for-hire deals targeting at least five people,[27] allegedly because they threatened to reveal Ulbricht's Silk Road enterprise.[36] Prosecutors believe no contracted killing ac…

It should be noted that the killing was conspiraed by FBI Agents where some of them also stealed a bunch of bitcoin for their own interest. It's nowhere mentioned cause it would put the Feds in a bad light

Are you suggesting that FBI actually forced him to contract a hitman? My understanding is that FBI set up the bait and this guy eat it hook and all. It is not illegal or even immoral to bait somebody, there was no pressure, FBI presented the opportunity and this guy wanted to have somebody killed.

Re: Free Ross Ulbricht

#78

Post by jahewson »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #66
jahewson wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not how it works. The evidentiary standard for a jury is “beyond a reasonable doubt” but for the sentencing judge is “preponderance of the evidence”, with the caveat that the judge can’t use that to hand down a sentence harsher than legally permitted by what the jury convicted on (in this case narcotics distribution - resulting in deaths of overdose victims).

At the very least, the 2 agents involved in his case being found to be corrupt and having forged evidence, should cast additional doubt on the murder for hire. I'm not saying he didn't do it, but had that been known at the time, I think it would have been less decided that his sentencing should take the alleged murders for hire into account. He should be tried for that separately at this point

It went to appeal and all those points were addressed. But I agree that it would have been much better to actually prosecute those murder-for-hire charges. Even if acquitted, the judge can still take the accusations into account during sentencing (due to the different evidentiary standards).

Re: Free Ross Ulbricht

#79

Post by ddalex »

root_axis wrote: post #74
yieldcrv wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whats validating about that? I don't think sentencing should be using information that wasn’t part of the charges or the conviction. I’ve seen prosecutors chose to be extremely strict about that, judges chose to be extremely about that, jurors say “we couldn't convict because we had to follow the prosecutor’s instructions”, and yet here the jury was swayed by actions unrelated to the charges in order to convict, and…

> I don't think sentencing should be using information that wasn’t part of the charges or the conviction. I’ve seen prosecutors chose to be extremely strict about that, judges chose to be extremely about that The judge addressed this: > The record was more than sufficient to support the district court's reliance on those attempted murders in sentencing Ulbricht to life in prison. The attempted murders for hire separa…

TLDR: this guys raised hairs on the judge's back

Re: Free Ross Ulbricht

#80

Post by bialczabub »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #75
root_axis wrote: post #30

Several posts on this thread (as well as TFA) have suggested the hitman for hire was slander to paint Ulbricht in a bad light. This is not true. > At the sentencing hearing, the district court resolved several disputed issues of fact. For example, because Ulbricht contested his responsibility for the five commissioned murders for hire, the district court found by a preponderance of the evidence that Ulbricht did in f…

I don't get this. The prosecutors decided not to press the hitman charges, so would the defense have even tried to gather evidence that it was false? Wouldn't that automatically make the preponderance of the evidence suggest his guilt, as only the evidence suggesting his guilt would have been presented?

"Preponderance of evidence" here refers to a legal standard (i.e. was it more likely than not) rather than the criminal standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" and not "most of the evidence."

The prosecutors didn't charge him with hiring hitmen because they were uncertain that they could prove it beyond a resonable doubt, but the evidence they were able to present suggests he probably did it.

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