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Friendship Forever

secretorum.life

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Re: Friendship Forever

#71

Post by tsol »

anon291 wrote: post #7
dmitriid wrote: post #2

I came to study in Turkey in 1999. Until about 2003 or so it was still very common to see male friends holding hands. It became very uncommon towards mid-naughts.

As awareness of homosexuality and acceptance of it spreads, friendly measures like this between platonic friends become less common. This is not a moral judgement, just an observation. People don't want to be seen or feel like they're seen as something theyre not.

Counterpoint-- these cultures are perfectly well aware of homosexuality. It points to something deeper in American culture, IMO, where that men don't really have a comfortable place to just exist. There is no definition of masculinity that isn't in flux. As an Indian, there's a certain coldness in American culture, at least for men. It almost feels like it's considered almost wrong to try to sincerely connect with another man. But I rarely see this tension with most of the foreign cultures I've experienced.

It doesn't help that most people don't consider it a problem. They see life as "men are supposed to be independent and if you get lonely you just date". If you try to insist there is another way, some amount of people will continuously push back as if it's an insult to their culture(it really isn't meant that way!). Which, okay I can almost understand, but then I go back to seeing constant posts about how lonely people say they are and I'm like "well that's what I was saying"

Re: Friendship Forever

#73

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

baxtr wrote: post #41

We need “work/life” balance because, at some point, we started separating work from life. It didn’t use to be that way. And we should begin to change it again. Building companies with friends is the best way I have found to bring these two sides of life together. And what about those people who say don’t start a company with friends or family? F* them! Sure, friendships might suffer. But hey, so what. That’s life. An…

Workaholics be like "why isn't literally everything about work?".

Re: Friendship Forever

#74

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

zwkrt wrote: post #17
JetAlone wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a man. I don't even like showing tremendous physical intimacy with the women I go out with on dates. I hate it when people at my workplace or church touch me. My brain says "Get away from me, all of you".

Quoted post unavailable.

Less a mental health problem than a mere insecurity. Amateur hour psychology: It sounds avoidant to me, an attachment style that is the likely the product of being encouraged to be independent and self sufficient by caregivers (emotionally and/or physically) at a very young age. It leads one to view intimacy as an undesirable form of control.

Re: Friendship Forever

#75

Post by dorchadas »

TranquilMarmot wrote: post #30

The part about remote work removing a driving force for friendships hit me pretty hard. In February of 2020, I had a dozen or so really close friends that I would see every day. We would laugh together, get food together, and work on hard problems together. In March of 2020, we all started working remotely and I haven't seen any of them since. Even if I wanted to, almost all of them have moved to other cities, states…

> We have a Discord server where we all still talk and chat, but it's a cheap imitation of what we used to have.

I moved half a world away for a masters and now have a job in another country. I feel this so much. I've been tempted to go back several times just because the lack of connection. It doesn't help I'm in a smaller country which makes it hard to break into friend groups when they've all known each other since secondary school (or longer) or Uni.

Discord really can't replace in-person discussion and experiences.

Re: Friendship Forever

#76

Post by randomkorean »

Hand holding is (or was) acceptable by boys in Korea; and so was non-sexual physical touching, even well into the college age by young men.

So it was a shock when I first befriended some Koreans in the US on student visas back in the 1980s.

That angl-saxon coldness was a learning experience for both parties. Being raised in the US by an emotionally distant Korean mother (Asperger’s?) I just thought that the US standard was normal.

Re: Friendship Forever

#77

Post by TwoCent »

mccorrinall wrote: post #61
n4r9 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean you don't think it likely/possible to make new friends as an adult?

I am unsure whether I think this, but I haven’t found new friends since I left school. I am 25.

I'll offer a counter-example, to give you a bit of hope. I'm in my 50s. In the last 5 years I've gained one close friend and a handful of new friends in my social circle. Age is no barrier to forming friendships. You must be intentional about it. But new friendship happens throughout our lives.

Re: Friendship Forever

#78

Post by thebigspacefuck »

TranquilMarmot wrote: post #30

The part about remote work removing a driving force for friendships hit me pretty hard. In February of 2020, I had a dozen or so really close friends that I would see every day. We would laugh together, get food together, and work on hard problems together. In March of 2020, we all started working remotely and I haven't seen any of them since. Even if I wanted to, almost all of them have moved to other cities, states…

I started a new job, I’ve been going into the office occasionally, and I’ve made a few new friends already. It’s a breath of fresh air. Everyone I’ve talked to that’s gotten covid recently says it’s basically a cold by this point, so it’s not worth worrying about. President and Fauci said the pandemic is over months ago. It’s time to get out there and live again!

Re: Friendship Forever

#79

Post by thebigspacefuck »

ajb wrote: post #46
baxtr wrote: post #41

We need “work/life” balance because, at some point, we started separating work from life. It didn’t use to be that way. And we should begin to change it again. Building companies with friends is the best way I have found to bring these two sides of life together. And what about those people who say don’t start a company with friends or family? F* them! Sure, friendships might suffer. But hey, so what. That’s life. An…

The problem finding friendships at work is that if you're just an employee, that's another thing your exploitative boss can use as leverage. Leave the company and lose your friends. Work long hours or you're letting your friends down. And the company won't consider those friendships for a nanosecond if getting rid of you is to their benefit.

This is stupid. If a friendship stretches beyond work, you can remain friends after you move on to another job. If you all work for an exploitative boss, move on and help your friends find a job at the new company that doesn’t suck.

Re: Friendship Forever

#80

Post by germinalphrase »

themacguffinman wrote: post #15
charlie0 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that hard times is what really creates that sense of brotherhood. Unfortunately, in the modern western world, it has become really easy to avoid serious hardships once you get even to a modest level of income. I've wanted to do challenging things with acquaintances of mine, but they just don't pan out. I invite people to the gym, I invite them on long hikes, I ask them to do something challenging with me, but…

Is that unfortunate? If you've managed to avoid serious hardships with a modest level of income, do you need that sense of brotherhood? Brotherhood is forged in hard times because it's necessary in hard times. It strikes me a bit like looking for an emergency prepper kit in a land that doesn't have serious natural disasters. It's as if you're saying the old Chinese curse to yourself "may you live in interesting times…

I couldn’t disagree more strongly. Not everything is War or Peace, and everyone is going to to struggle with something significant in life. Having deep, trusting bonds (brotherhood) is a source of security, even if the challenge is as boring and common as a passing illness.
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