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Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

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Re: Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

#71

Post by shafyy »

captainmuon wrote: post #67

It is ridiculous that data protection officials focus on CDNs, third party resources and cookies. And at the same time it is totally legal for Google to collect advertizing data from some random websites so they can create a profile that follows you around. All that sites have to do is to put up obnoxious cookie banners that nobody reads. If they were really concerned about my privacy, they would ban creating cross-p…

It's not legal for EU companies to use Google Analytics, because of the same legal reasons.

Re: Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

#72

Post by shafyy »

lmkg wrote: post #38
yashap wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But their CDN providers (CloudFlare, Amazon and Fastly) aren’t. That’s the claim made in the article, that using American owned CDNs makes your business illegal in Europe, even if no data processing or storage happens outside Europe. I find this hard to believe …

The CLOUD Act gives US law enforcement access to the data, even if it's only stored in Europe. That's the problem, and the EU court is doing no more than recognizing that for the problem that it is.

I think it's good that the EU is forcing the US to get their privacy laws in order.

Re: Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

#73

Post by Vespasian »

andrewmutz wrote: post #40
blueflow wrote: post #13

Not unsurprising. At work (Germany) we are forbidden to use any US cloud services, i wonder why this hasn't been the new normal yet.

Sounds like great news for home-grown German alternatives to US cloud services. And bad news for the competitiveness of all other German companies.

Much of German business is in B2B, engineering and manufacturing.

Many cloud offerings are not required if your product is physical and/or not directed at consumers. For others there are home grown alternative.

But it'll suck for a few businesses until GDPR compliment products are available.

The big one is Office 365 but, I think Microsoft is setting up licensing agreements where a European company (which is not a subsidiary of MS) is running the stack and Microsoft has no direct access.

Other large US companies are probably planing sth similar

Re: Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

#74

Post by dmitriid »

throwaway13337 wrote: post #58
dmitriid wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GDPR is ugly. The only thing it allows you to do before you get confirmation to process PII is to show static page requesting for permissions. That's basically it. You can't do any "cloudy" stuff prior. No, GDPR is not ugly. Yes, you can do "cloudy stuff". The bullshit narratives around GDPR need to stop, however people driving the narrative are extremely incentivized to siphon and sell all the data they can get yo…

You're just incorrect here. Part of the GDPR does good things against bad actors like ad/tracking companies. But most of these companies are so big that it just works as a moat to keep out small competitors in that space. The more widely-affecting thing that the GDPR is doing is to make it impossible to legitimately run a business like the one that the article is talking about. An online shop that uses shopify which…

> You're just incorrect here.

I was expecting you to show where I'm incorrect.

And yet, it's the same emotionally-charged "omg moat, large companies, impossible to run a business".

Which doesn't disprove what I say, but further supports my case: the bullshit narrative around GDPR persists even if it has literally no basis in reality.

> A small online shop using a CDN is who is actually hurt with GDPR.

Most CDNs have GDPR-compliant services in the EU. Those listed in the article literally have separate pages specifically addressing compliance with GDPR.

There are banks in the EU handling sensitive customer data which use the very same CDNs and services under significantly stricter laws than GDPR.

But sure. Tell me how it's impossible to legitimately run a small business that operates under significantly fewer obligations, and retains significantly less customer data.

Re: Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

#75

Post by ronsor »

Aerroon wrote: post #24

With all of this popping up: how are you even supposed to run an internet service in the EU? Do you have to write all pieces of the software yourself or what? Since all the big services seem to be off-limits.

At least if you're US-based and not accepting money, I have one bit of advice: just don't care. Even if they complain, don't care. The Internet is global; if they really have an issue, they can block your site, or they can just put up with it.

If you're gonna sell a product or service, then worry about figuring stuff out.

Re: Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

#76

Post by anonymousab »

Barrin92 wrote: post #10

two issues are mentioned in the post. One is a rather boring cookie consent issue which the user was able to solve, the thornier one is that Shopify's use of American CDNs runs into privacy issues. A user in the comments points out that the Trans-Atlantic Data Privacy Framework, which is basically the next iteration of Privacy Shield (which was canned in 2020) will probably alleviate these issues. Personally I think…

> Trans-Atlantic Data Privacy Framework

Unless it completely upends both FISA and the CLOUD act, it won't be valid at all. And there's really no way that the US government will ever accept real, significant limitations on its data gathering reach and authority.

But it will buy companies more time and rope, because it will have to be litigated again. And then we'll go through this whole song and dance again after Schrems III.

Re: Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

#77

Post by jrmg »

notamy wrote: post #3

English (machine) translation: https://lsww-de.translate.goog/shopify-illegal/?_x_tr_sl=aut...

I was super impressed when I translated this using Apple’s built in translation in Safari on my iPad, and it also translated the screenshots of emails and web pages!

Re: Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

#78

Post by rurban »

toyg wrote: post #30
jdross wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shopify is a Canadian company, does this change anything?

I don't think that matters - what matters is where the processing servers are. And if they are using CloudFront etc, they are sending data to the US.

But those 3 US companies all signed the safe heaven agreement, AFAIK.

Re: Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

#79

Post by lmkg »

throwaway13337 wrote: post #29

Though the intentions of GDPR were good, Following the GDPR to the letter is not feasible for any company that isn't a monopoly. We're in a situation where no one is following it all the way as it's not even clear what that means. More of the same will continue and the GDPR will only be used coercively as an attack against competition or companies others don't like. It's really a major blow for small businesses that…

This ruling is about the US CLOUD Act moreso than GDPR. The CLOUD Act says US law enforcement can get anyone's data from a US company, with no safeguards. GDPR is just calling a spade a spade.

Re: Shopify Is Illegal in Germany

#80

Post by erik1332 »

When this google-font stuff came up here in Germany, I was wondering if using CDNs also need permission first. I did some googeling for my ghost blog with no clear solution (ths standard gost blog uses jsdelivr). After reading the text: you need permission to load scrips etc. through CDNS.

This is bad, since most of the software does not offer to locally host the required scripts.

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